H4831

[timeout]

Quick question for those that may have already "been there, done that", so to speak. I just built a new 25-06 for hunting purposes. It is a Krieger, fluted heavy barrel with muzzle brake. I am shooting 115 gr. Berger VLD hunting bullets and H4831 powder. I shot a couple groups at 300 yards today. Pretty satisfied with one group, seating depth so far off the lands that I would feel foolish saying how far. A friend just bought a new chronograph, so we fired the groups over it. I don't have the SD and ES figures here, but they were quite a bit higher than I was expecting. Maybe a few things causing it, not the least of which could have something to do with the fact that the seating ring on the bullet is below the cartridge neck. I don't want to change the seating depth as it is grouping. I have some VV160, Varget and 4831SC on hand. In past experience, do you think any of these would produce more consistency? My charge weights are exact, as are my seating depths. My brass is Lapua and is neck turned, primer pockets trued, flash holes deburred on the inside, etc. I am using CCI large rifle magnum primers. Thanks for reading.

 

[wapiti25]

Try a std primer unless firing is going to be done in below freezing weather. Have you annealed the case necks?

 

[timeout]

These are brand new Lapua 30-06 cases that I necked down to 25 cal. and neck turned, then used a bushing style die. Our deer season has been running into the first week of January and that can get pretty chilly here in the Badger State. I will try different primers though.

 

[M-61]

I always had excellent results with 25-06/4831/large rifle primers

 

[expiper]

OP,,,4831 is a go to powder for your cal....however!! since you hav VV-160 (which is scarce and $$$) it will work great also...,,,,,Roger

 

[WyleWD]

since you hav VV-160 (which is scarce and $$$) it will work great also...,,,,,Roger

+1 on Roger's post. The VV160 and N560 is usually really good stuff for what you're trying to do. WD

 

[civil82]

I use RE-22 in two standard 25-06s and one 25-06AI. If you can't find VV powder locally, don't be afraid to try it. Even with stout loads in the AI, I haven't seen any improvements with magnum primers.
Are you jumping the VLDs in the .090" range?

 

[madderg]

I used 4831 for years with great results in a 25-284...almost the same loading data.

 

[ebb]

I once checked H2O capacity for 25-06 and 6.5-284 and the source I used said they were the same. I think this means that any powder that you would use in one MAY also work in the other. H4831 and IMR 4831 both work well in my 6.5-284 but it came alive with VV165. That was using 140 grain bullets, so maybe the VV160 will be right with the lighter bullets you are using in the 25-06. When I first started loading with my 25-06 I used accurate 3100 it worked really well with my original barrel, the 3100 and the first barrel are gone now and I tried H2831 with it and am not satisfied yet. Good luck and post your results I will be looking

 

[timeout]

I use RE-22 in two standard 25-06s and one 25-06AI. If you can't find VV powder locally, don't be afraid to try it. Even with stout loads in the AI, I haven't seen any improvements with magnum primers.
Are you jumping the VLDs in the .090" range?

I hate to even post how far I am jumping the VLD's, or how I got to that point, but I shall. This is the 3rd rifle that I have worked up loads for with the Berger VLD's. The first was a 6BR. It shoots quite well seated into the lands. On reading about taking big swings with seating depths on tuning the VLD's - .040" at a time - I experimented. I found that my 6 shot even better @ .120" off the lands. It shoots better than I should be able to shoot. I also worked with my factory barrel 25-06 and never could get it to shoot to my liking, but the .120" from the lands area was the best. I purchased a Krieger blank and had a reamer built with the 115 VLD in mind. The rifle has a blue printed action, Jewell trigger, properly bedded, 6.5 to 20 VX3 LR Leupold and a muzzle brake. Being a hunting rifle, I started my load development by loading .005" off the lands and worked out .040" at a time as described in the Berger manual. I loaded 3 rounds each at a mid range powder charge. I setup at 100 yards and fired two rounds left over from my factory 25-06 barrel testing. These happened to be a somewhat beefier powder charge and were just North of .200" off the lands. These two shots made one hole, just a little wider at the top. I then fired my other test loads and only one of those showed promise. I finished by firing 3 shots of my old loads that were .200'+ from the lands. Again I had a real tight group with two holes pretty tight and the third a little wider. Next I loaded 5 rounds each at all the various depths using the hotter powder charge weight. I fired them round robin and again the deep seated group shined and the one other was decent, the rest all poor. So today I loaded 3 each of the two best loads and fired the two groups at 300 yards. It was no contest, the deep seated group was far and away the best. I will fine tune it from there, but it just defies everything I have read to have a load performing at that distance off the lands. I never would have tried it at that depth, were it not for taking two fouling shots with the old loads.

 

[kyreloader]

I shoot a .25-06 with a Pac-Nor barrel and also shoot the 115g Berger VLDs quite a ways off the lands. I have tried multiple powders with this combo and stand by Retumbo as "the" powder for the 115/117/120g bullets in the .25-06. I am currently shooting 60g with the 115g Berger at 3200 fps with Fed 215M primers. With slow powders, Retumbo/H1000, my groups were much smaller with the Fed 215M primers than any other primers that I tried.

Regarding N160, I think it is too fast for the heavies in .25-06. I have used it successfully with 100g bullets in the .25-06, but believe you will be better served by slower powders with the heavy bullets.

PM if any questions.

 

[Sled2live]

I have used H4831 as my go to powder in my 25-06 for about 30 years now. It shot good groups (less than MOA) before I owned a chronograph, and it still shoots good groups even after my extreme spread snd standard deviation was known.

I have used this rifle for most all of my big animals taken in North America with ranges from 35 yrds to 600 yards. Those animals didn't know whether a deviant round hit them or not...course i didn't know either. The rifle still shoots most groups under an inch if am on my game that day....If it works for you why worry about it?

Scott

 

[Three44s]

The chronograph does not kill anything. If your groups are good, the pressures are fine ........ and the bullet kills ........ what else do you need?

That said, to shrink groups ......... a mere primer change can make a fair difference. I have one .25-06 that likes CCI 200's and another that likes Federal 210s. Everything else the same.


Three 44s

 

[timeout]

I have used H4831 as my go to powder in my 25-06 for about 30 years now. It shot good groups (less than MOA) before I owned a chronograph, and it still shoots good groups even after my extreme spread snd standard deviation was known.

I have used this rifle for most all of my big animals taken in North America with ranges from 35 yrds to 600 yards. Those animals didn't know whether a deviant round hit them or not...course i didn't know either. The rifle still shoots most groups under an inch if am on my game that day....If it works for you why worry about it?

Scott

Everything you said is true Scott. I am just trying to wring everthing I can out of the rifle. I carry that extreme a little to a fault sometimes. When I stick that amount of money into a gun, I tend to set my standards a little high. Also, with the way my 6BR shoots, it tends to raise the bar on this 06. For those that do work hard with the numbers, here are my results for 8 rounds fired over a chronograph: Extreme Spread = 69. Std. Deviation = 29 I'm new to this, so looking for advice on whether I am correct to seek further improvement of those numbers? Ultimately, my end goal is the smallest possible groups on paper at 300 yards. Here is the rifle: http://www.shutterfly.com/lightbox/view.sfly?fid=bd08ab896e0049af3315f89dbf2f35f7

 

[wapiti25]

69 ft/sec is a lot of velocity change. The velocity gets more important when shooting longer ranges as it causes more vertical dispersion. Have you annealed the case necks? I recommend annealing as it can make bullet release more uniform and keep the necks from splitting.

 

[timeout]

69 ft/sec is a lot of velocity change. The velocity gets more important when shooting longer ranges as it causes more vertical dispersion. Have you annealed the case necks? I recommend annealing as it can make bullet release more uniform and keep the necks from splitting.

Brand new Lapua 30-06 brass necked down to 25 and neck turned. I anneal each time after firing.

 

[timeout]

I ran a short chrony test today. I switched to some old Federal 210 primers that have been in my stash for many years. 54.3 gr. of H4831 produced readings of 3041-3036-3036 FPS. 54.3 gr. of H4831 SC read 3111-3096-3101 FPS. 48 gr. of N160 was 2817-2885-2857 FPS. Looks like the Fed primers with the H4831 is just the ticket.