I have reloaded about 60 rounds for my new cooper 6.5x284 I am using h4350 with Berger 140 VLD's. So far I am not happy with any of my loads. I have been playing with the seating death and powder charges with the bullets as far out as +.0015 and back to -.0010. Maybey I am expecting to much. At a hundred yards 3 shot groups are usually spread out about on half inch. So should I try a different powder or try other seating depths? I know the first obvious is bullet change, but I am going to use this for hunting, and I have had good luck with the Berger's performance on animals. Thanks
Unhappy with load/ what next?
- Thread starter galold
- Start date
You will want to double check the distance from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface on several rounds. Another thread is talking about how the bullets are not seating properly in the stem of their loading die. You might be pushing the bullet in with the tip which will make this critical dimension vary from round to round.
I would also like to know which lot of bullets do you have?
Regards,
Eric
I would also like to know which lot of bullets do you have?
Regards,
Eric
Did you intend to write '+.0015 and back to -.0010'? That's only ONE to one-and-a-half-thousands of an inch,and the latter I assume as you didn't state). When I play with seating depths, I vary them in 0.005" steps.
Does 'spread out about on,SIC) half inch' mean the groups are as large as one-half-inch of extreme spread measured center-to-center?
Does 'spread out about on,SIC) half inch' mean the groups are as large as one-half-inch of extreme spread measured center-to-center?
Eric,
The lot number is 834. What do you mean "check the distance from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface" I am using a Wilson seating die and everything their seams ok. My best powder charge is 48.6 of H4350. I am using a well know rest,and Leopold scope. I don't have a cant level, but am sure of my ability and technique from all of the 6BR practice. My groups are more then a half inch total spread, more from hole to hole. I know every gun is different, but I read an article for the cooper 6.5-284 and the said they had best results with a oal of 2.85 Maybe I should try it.????
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/reloads/0610/index1.html#cont
The lot number is 834. What do you mean "check the distance from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface" I am using a Wilson seating die and everything their seams ok. My best powder charge is 48.6 of H4350. I am using a well know rest,and Leopold scope. I don't have a cant level, but am sure of my ability and technique from all of the 6BR practice. My groups are more then a half inch total spread, more from hole to hole. I know every gun is different, but I read an article for the cooper 6.5-284 and the said they had best results with a oal of 2.85 Maybe I should try it.????
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/reloads/0610/index1.html#cont
First off you need to determine the OAL of the cartridge for your rifle, using something like the former Stoney Point chamber gauge. Then you can accurately set the seating depth for your chamber. Don't measure OAL to the tip of the bullet, much variance in bullet lengths, measure to the ogive using the above mentioned gauge set available from Sinclair, Midway and pretty much everywhere else. As you load, occasionally check a few rounds to make sure they are seated uniformly.
I've found the 139 Scenars to be not too fussy about seating depth, and the work fine for my rifle at about .005" into the lands and surprisingly at about .020 off the lands.
But at short range something like the 123 Scenar is actually more accurate, just not quite as good in my rifle at 1,000 so if you aren't shooting to 1,000 but say 600, one of the lighter bullets may be the ticket.
And maybe your rifle doesn't like H4350. Other suitable powders for the heavier bullets include H4831 with either a Federal or CCI primer, and RL-22 with a Winchester primer.
I've found the 139 Scenars to be not too fussy about seating depth, and the work fine for my rifle at about .005" into the lands and surprisingly at about .020 off the lands.
But at short range something like the 123 Scenar is actually more accurate, just not quite as good in my rifle at 1,000 so if you aren't shooting to 1,000 but say 600, one of the lighter bullets may be the ticket.
And maybe your rifle doesn't like H4350. Other suitable powders for the heavier bullets include H4831 with either a Federal or CCI primer, and RL-22 with a Winchester primer.
Galold,
That lot is a good one so no worries there. The distance from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface is very critical. Rust and jo191145 are talking about a measuring device that will tell you exactly the distance you have from your bolt fact to the rifling. There are a few ways to determine this dimension but the Stoney Point gage is probably the easiest.
Once you know how far it is from your bolt face,closed bolt) to your rifling you know how long your round needs to be to touch the rifling if you measure your round from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface. The best way to get this measurement is to use calipers with an ogive gage which will go over the nose of the bullet to approximately where the bearing surface and the ogive meet.
The first thing you want to do is check several rounds to make sure that this dimension is consistent from round to round,check each round a couple of times as calipers are notorious for giving bad readings from time to time). It should be within .003 to .005,at the most) of each other.
This is important because if this dimension varies your precision will likely be poor. If this dimension does vary it is likely due to a poor fit between the bullet and the seating die stem. VLD bullets are known for bottoming out in seating die stems. When they bottom out they are being seated by the tip instead of the ogive,which is bad).
This is a lot of new information so take it in and check your situation and we can get deeper into it if needed.
Regards,
Eric
That lot is a good one so no worries there. The distance from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface is very critical. Rust and jo191145 are talking about a measuring device that will tell you exactly the distance you have from your bolt fact to the rifling. There are a few ways to determine this dimension but the Stoney Point gage is probably the easiest.
Once you know how far it is from your bolt face,closed bolt) to your rifling you know how long your round needs to be to touch the rifling if you measure your round from the base of the cartridge to the end of the bearing surface. The best way to get this measurement is to use calipers with an ogive gage which will go over the nose of the bullet to approximately where the bearing surface and the ogive meet.
The first thing you want to do is check several rounds to make sure that this dimension is consistent from round to round,check each round a couple of times as calipers are notorious for giving bad readings from time to time). It should be within .003 to .005,at the most) of each other.
This is important because if this dimension varies your precision will likely be poor. If this dimension does vary it is likely due to a poor fit between the bullet and the seating die stem. VLD bullets are known for bottoming out in seating die stems. When they bottom out they are being seated by the tip instead of the ogive,which is bad).
This is a lot of new information so take it in and check your situation and we can get deeper into it if needed.
Regards,
Eric
Maybe try a slower powder. I could never get 4350 to shoot in either of my 6.5/284`s i had best luck with re22 or V.V. n165. especially 165...This was with berger 140`s,gtb 141`s and sierra 142`s. 2900-2930 fps. This was with a shilen and a kreiger barrel. I agree with treeman, my shilen did not group too well @ 100yards but 300 on out it did fine but my kreiger was a one hole barrel at 100 with all 3 bullets.All oads were just "Kissing" the lands as far as OAL. hope this helps...chris
+1 for Eric's recommendation. If that doesn't tighten your groups, you may also want to try a different bullet. Bergers are great bullets but some rifles just dont shoot a particular bullet well. For example, I have a 223 that shoots cheap, 60 g Sierra Varminters in the 3s or better all day long. Other bullets, even high end bullets don't come close.
Feed the rifle what it likes.
Feed the rifle what it likes.
There maybe nothing wrong with your loads. As an outsider if it was me I would look at my rifle to make sure the bedding was OK and that nothing was rubbing.,the old one dollar trick between the barrel and stock) and if that was ok I would try a "Limbsaver Barrel De-Resonator Rubber Black" you can pick one up at Midway USA for $17.99. I don't know but where I come from a .5 MOA at 100 yards is really good for a hunting rifle. For compition I have to say .3 at 100 yards or .75 at 200 would put you in the top 10. Unless there are only 8 entered then you would be in the top 8. Try the De-Resonator before pulling out your hairs.
Big Jim
Big Jim
You didn't answer the wind indicator question. Without some type of wind indicators,your wasting your time and money--if your seeking any consistancy in interpreting your target results. At the very least take survey ribbons on a piece of rod/pipe w/ the ribbons tied about 3' off the ground,same elevation as the bullet path).Place 1 ea.maybe 10' from the muzzle, 1 @ 30yds & 1 @ 60 yds.,from bench).
Shoot only when the ribbons,tails) do exactly the same. Hint: a constant steady crosswind,actually a slight breeze) will give the tightest groups. Don't do in early am or late pm.Have a friend verify the tails did not alter when you shot.
I spent years,no decades, and tons of $$$ trying to get my rifles to be consistent.I wasn't successful until I was shown what the "conditions" actually do to a bullet. You'll find that it wasn't "you" pulling those shot after all.
However, it is a true art form to master "reading the conditions."
If you truly want to learn I suggest getting some of the excellent books on the subject or hook up with a shooter involved in registered competition.
Shoot only when the ribbons,tails) do exactly the same. Hint: a constant steady crosswind,actually a slight breeze) will give the tightest groups. Don't do in early am or late pm.Have a friend verify the tails did not alter when you shot.
I spent years,no decades, and tons of $$$ trying to get my rifles to be consistent.I wasn't successful until I was shown what the "conditions" actually do to a bullet. You'll find that it wasn't "you" pulling those shot after all.
However, it is a true art form to master "reading the conditions."
If you truly want to learn I suggest getting some of the excellent books on the subject or hook up with a shooter involved in registered competition.
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