Gunsmith ?
- Thread starter Hoier
- Start date
Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
I used smiths that don't over-promise. I just find over-promising to be an honesty issue.
It is one thing to have a problem and give you a call saying "Gee, I'm sorry, I had something go sideways, but I'm going to get it to you ASAP".
It is something entirely different telling someone that the rifle will be done in 3 weeks knowing that 16 rifles need to be built before that one. I can give you the name of one gunsmith I've used that doesn't over-promise (as a matter of fact, I don't recall him ever giving me a delivery date). He is extremely busy and it takes some time to get anything done, but he does excellent work and your rifle gets done right. I would use him again even if I had to wait an additional 6 months to get it done just because he is honest.
It is one thing to have a problem and give you a call saying "Gee, I'm sorry, I had something go sideways, but I'm going to get it to you ASAP".
It is something entirely different telling someone that the rifle will be done in 3 weeks knowing that 16 rifles need to be built before that one. I can give you the name of one gunsmith I've used that doesn't over-promise (as a matter of fact, I don't recall him ever giving me a delivery date). He is extremely busy and it takes some time to get anything done, but he does excellent work and your rifle gets done right. I would use him again even if I had to wait an additional 6 months to get it done just because he is honest.
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
gre-tan rifles. He is on our list.
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
He is a true gentleman and means what he says and does what he says,no bs stories.
Good smiths are always busy. I once had a very well known gunsmith build a gun for me. Initially he promised to finish it in 3 or 4 months. It took 15 months, and then only because I kept bugging him. I later learned that his favorite customers got preference. One guy actually had him chamber and fit a barrel in 3 days! Course, they will never tell you this.
If a smith favors some clients over others I do not have a problem with that. Just tell me at the beginning that I am not on his "preferential list" and he will get to my project as his schedule allows, OR do not accept my project, at some time in your life, time IS important, and if I want something done I want it as soon as possible with quality work at a fair price, I really do not think that is unreasonable. If a smith is backlogged, tell me, but do not accept and put me on the backburner, to be completed at his convenience. None of us wants to"bug" them over when the work will be complete. I have never had a problem with anyone that has ever done work for me, but I know there are horror stories out there. Many times "contractors" will accept work, knowing that they are overloaded, but they want the business and do not want you going somewhere else, they basically want to lock you in. This is not related to gunsmiths only but many contactors, I had a painter this last summer that took three months to finish a three day job, he even painted for two hours every Sunday afternoon from 2-4 for two months,
I asked him why, if he was so booked did he even take the job, his comment---I just can not pass up any work, I do not want to turn down any business.
I asked him why, if he was so booked did he even take the job, his comment---I just can not pass up any work, I do not want to turn down any business.
I don't understand why a guy would treat his customers like that. I perceive it as dishonesty, or the arrogance of doing business only on his terms.
In fact, I am awaiting a project that was to ship around the first of the year, then within two weeks, then I am getting ignored. He's got my cash and I see new work being sold, but he can't find time to let me know what's up with mine. Maybe I'll at least get an update, someday.......
In fact, I am awaiting a project that was to ship around the first of the year, then within two weeks, then I am getting ignored. He's got my cash and I see new work being sold, but he can't find time to let me know what's up with mine. Maybe I'll at least get an update, someday.......
dksac2
Retired Gunsmith, Retired LEO
I'm a retired gunsmith, so maybe I can give a perspective from a gunsmiths point of view.
Any good smith is going to be backed up from 6 months to as much as a couple of years. The smith I now use has an advantage, 2 sons who have become darn good smiths from having worked with their father who is a master smith, he manages to keep work times at about 2 to 4 months ,give or take, most smiths do not have that advantage, hence the longer waits.
A smith should not promise what he cannot deliver. That said, there are times a smith can get behind. I've had jobs that should have been 1/2 hour jobs that took four, you also have interuptions from phone calls as well as customers coming into the shop.
Some smiths will only take e mails until it's time to work on the customers firearm, I didn't like to do business that way, customers should be talked to, but they should also realize that they should keep it short when they can. The guy who is told 2 months and calls every day for the last 3 weeks is a major pain in the butt, and it happens on a regular basis.
Gunsmithing is not an exact business, some guns go faster than expected, others will take longer, especially if it's a good smith who will not return your firearm until it's as good as it can be.
Where we are, we have long winters, there are times it may be 5 days until a gun can even be test fired, sometimes more, that slows things up sometimes.
The bottom line is that a smith should give an approx. time the firearm will be finished. If done before that time, it's fantastic, if it takes longer, that is just the way it is sometimes. You get hung up because a customer wants a specific brand and type of barrel and the barrel maker takes 4 months to get it to you. Things like that happen all the time. You try and order as soon as possible, but I have seen barrels take 6 months to arrive, not the smiths fault.
My smith had a death in the family, he had to leave the shop for 8 days. His sons did some work, but he does all the machine work, so it put him behind a week, time he was not expecting to be gone.
Most smiths are a one man business and have things come up just as we all do.
If the smith is honest, he will give you an approx. date, but things do happen that put things out further sometimes. It's hard when you have a 6 month back log to give a date and hold right to it at times. Other times it's ready before the date.
If you have found a smith that is honest, gives you a date and does his best to hold to it and does great work, you have found a gem, treat him like gold.
Don't keep calling asking about progress, if the smith says it will take more time, give him the time, especially if it's not his fault.
It's not easy being a smith, especially one who will never ship sub standard work. many times it's just little things that most shooters would never notice, but the smith knows and does his best to give you the best work he can.
Last, most smiths don't get paid what their work is worth, you have to know so much to be a really good smith, unless you have been one, you will never know. Gunsmithing is a labor of love, the love of firearms and precision work. I know my smith with all of his talents could make far more money doing something else, but he would not be happy, he loves what he does.
I'm not trying to make excuses, a good smith will be as honest with you as he can be, but do realize that sometimes things come up in his life as they do yours, things may take longer, it happens. Just don't be the guy calling all of the time if you have found an honest smith, when he's listening to you complain that the gun should have been there last week, he is not getting any work done, including yours.
If time runs over, a quick call is fine, but don't be one of the idiots that calls 4 times a week, it slows things down for everyone.
Not every smith is a good one. When you find a very good smith, work with him, your gun will get done as soon as he can get it to you. The only way for things to be done faster is to work more hours, most smiths I know work far more than a 40 hr work week, the other way is for the smith to work too fast and not give you and other the precision they require and expect. My smith will not cut corners for anything, yours should not either.
If you are ordering a custom rifle, pay for the parts up front, don't expect the smith to have to carry you for 4 or 6 months and be your bank, they are not rich, even the best of them with few exceptions.
Great work takes time, realize that. You can take your gun to a smith that will have it back in 2 weeks. Chances are, you are not getting very good work, yes sometimes, but in most cases, smiths that do the best work are booked, that's life. Some smiths will tell yo 8 months when they are 6 months out just in case something comes up or some firearms have taken longer than expected. Maybe that's the way all should do business, that way you are happy when you get your gun back sooner. I don't know how people feel about that. I tried to give the best estimate I could, I think that's better than telling you your firearm will take 2 or 3 months more than it most likely will.
You can decide if you think that is the right way to do business. It would make it far easier on the smith, that is for sure, but is it the right thing to do? Firearms get done as fast as the smith can get them done, just hope you find a smith that does not cut corners to get guns back faster, that I have seen happen.
If I had to take more time to get firearms done than promised, that was the way it was, you waited. I did my best to give good estimates of time, but life happens. When I got them back faster, all were happy. It's a hard thing to manage.
And I agree on not giving preference. There are times when someone brings a firearm in that need something that will take 15 minutes to 1/2 hour. I would do a small job like that rather than having a guy wait 6 months to get his scope mounted. Those are the exceptions I feel are reasonable, but not a major job, everone waits for those.
Since people are mentioning their favorite smiths, I have to mention mine.
S&S Sporting/Savagegunsmithing www.savagegunsmithing.com
A fantastic smith by the name of Scott Null, one who cares and works with his customers and does nothing but the best work.
He's located in Idaho. Honest as the day is long and a great guy to have do your work. Not one worry sending any firearm to him. Savage Corp thinks enough of him to have him be a part of their regular round tables with the CEO, engineers, production mgrs etc. He even builds custom rifles for the CEO.
My Best, John K
Any good smith is going to be backed up from 6 months to as much as a couple of years. The smith I now use has an advantage, 2 sons who have become darn good smiths from having worked with their father who is a master smith, he manages to keep work times at about 2 to 4 months ,give or take, most smiths do not have that advantage, hence the longer waits.
A smith should not promise what he cannot deliver. That said, there are times a smith can get behind. I've had jobs that should have been 1/2 hour jobs that took four, you also have interuptions from phone calls as well as customers coming into the shop.
Some smiths will only take e mails until it's time to work on the customers firearm, I didn't like to do business that way, customers should be talked to, but they should also realize that they should keep it short when they can. The guy who is told 2 months and calls every day for the last 3 weeks is a major pain in the butt, and it happens on a regular basis.
Gunsmithing is not an exact business, some guns go faster than expected, others will take longer, especially if it's a good smith who will not return your firearm until it's as good as it can be.
Where we are, we have long winters, there are times it may be 5 days until a gun can even be test fired, sometimes more, that slows things up sometimes.
The bottom line is that a smith should give an approx. time the firearm will be finished. If done before that time, it's fantastic, if it takes longer, that is just the way it is sometimes. You get hung up because a customer wants a specific brand and type of barrel and the barrel maker takes 4 months to get it to you. Things like that happen all the time. You try and order as soon as possible, but I have seen barrels take 6 months to arrive, not the smiths fault.
My smith had a death in the family, he had to leave the shop for 8 days. His sons did some work, but he does all the machine work, so it put him behind a week, time he was not expecting to be gone.
Most smiths are a one man business and have things come up just as we all do.
If the smith is honest, he will give you an approx. date, but things do happen that put things out further sometimes. It's hard when you have a 6 month back log to give a date and hold right to it at times. Other times it's ready before the date.
If you have found a smith that is honest, gives you a date and does his best to hold to it and does great work, you have found a gem, treat him like gold.
Don't keep calling asking about progress, if the smith says it will take more time, give him the time, especially if it's not his fault.
It's not easy being a smith, especially one who will never ship sub standard work. many times it's just little things that most shooters would never notice, but the smith knows and does his best to give you the best work he can.
Last, most smiths don't get paid what their work is worth, you have to know so much to be a really good smith, unless you have been one, you will never know. Gunsmithing is a labor of love, the love of firearms and precision work. I know my smith with all of his talents could make far more money doing something else, but he would not be happy, he loves what he does.
I'm not trying to make excuses, a good smith will be as honest with you as he can be, but do realize that sometimes things come up in his life as they do yours, things may take longer, it happens. Just don't be the guy calling all of the time if you have found an honest smith, when he's listening to you complain that the gun should have been there last week, he is not getting any work done, including yours.
If time runs over, a quick call is fine, but don't be one of the idiots that calls 4 times a week, it slows things down for everyone.
Not every smith is a good one. When you find a very good smith, work with him, your gun will get done as soon as he can get it to you. The only way for things to be done faster is to work more hours, most smiths I know work far more than a 40 hr work week, the other way is for the smith to work too fast and not give you and other the precision they require and expect. My smith will not cut corners for anything, yours should not either.
If you are ordering a custom rifle, pay for the parts up front, don't expect the smith to have to carry you for 4 or 6 months and be your bank, they are not rich, even the best of them with few exceptions.
Great work takes time, realize that. You can take your gun to a smith that will have it back in 2 weeks. Chances are, you are not getting very good work, yes sometimes, but in most cases, smiths that do the best work are booked, that's life. Some smiths will tell yo 8 months when they are 6 months out just in case something comes up or some firearms have taken longer than expected. Maybe that's the way all should do business, that way you are happy when you get your gun back sooner. I don't know how people feel about that. I tried to give the best estimate I could, I think that's better than telling you your firearm will take 2 or 3 months more than it most likely will.
You can decide if you think that is the right way to do business. It would make it far easier on the smith, that is for sure, but is it the right thing to do? Firearms get done as fast as the smith can get them done, just hope you find a smith that does not cut corners to get guns back faster, that I have seen happen.
If I had to take more time to get firearms done than promised, that was the way it was, you waited. I did my best to give good estimates of time, but life happens. When I got them back faster, all were happy. It's a hard thing to manage.
And I agree on not giving preference. There are times when someone brings a firearm in that need something that will take 15 minutes to 1/2 hour. I would do a small job like that rather than having a guy wait 6 months to get his scope mounted. Those are the exceptions I feel are reasonable, but not a major job, everone waits for those.
Since people are mentioning their favorite smiths, I have to mention mine.
S&S Sporting/Savagegunsmithing www.savagegunsmithing.com
A fantastic smith by the name of Scott Null, one who cares and works with his customers and does nothing but the best work.
He's located in Idaho. Honest as the day is long and a great guy to have do your work. Not one worry sending any firearm to him. Savage Corp thinks enough of him to have him be a part of their regular round tables with the CEO, engineers, production mgrs etc. He even builds custom rifles for the CEO.
My Best, John K
Hoier said:
Lock, Stock, and Barrel in Grants Pass, Oregon is owned by a cantankerous fellow (Bud) who tells you it will be about three month right up front. If you offer him a little extra money to get your project moved up it is moved out. He wont take it. Occatonally he had been able to get my stuff out a little early.
I use Bob Green in York Pa.
Bob is honest as the day is long, his prices are more than reasonable, and if he gives you a completion date you can count on it being accurate. If anything you'll get your stuff BEFORE the promised completition date. I have used Bob for years and cannot say enough about him or his work.
Danny
Bob is honest as the day is long, his prices are more than reasonable, and if he gives you a completion date you can count on it being accurate. If anything you'll get your stuff BEFORE the promised completition date. I have used Bob for years and cannot say enough about him or his work.
Danny
Darn, dreever, I wish you hadn't let that cat out of the bag! ;D
Bob is definitely a fine gunsmith and very pleasant and up front to deal with.
Bob is definitely a fine gunsmith and very pleasant and up front to deal with.
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