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"Gun Trust" the do's and don'ts

DennisH

Life Time NRA member
Who is familiar with Gun Trust.

Exactly what does a Gun Trust entitle you to own or do?

I know I can legally own a suppressor/silencer.

I know it does not allow me to manufacture weapons/silencers.

Does the trust laws vary from state to state?

Just looking for the benefits.

Thanks, Dennis
 
Find a local attorney and pay them for an answer.

What you're asking for is legal advice, pure and simple, and asking for legal advice on the internet is asking for bad advice, ignorance and trouble.

Your correct, I did have an attorney draw mine up! I am looking to see if he failed to let me know anything. He really didn't know all the answers other than he was the attorney.

All answers will be handled with kit gloves.

Thanks, Dennis
 
Thanks, gang.

Even if an attorney answered, he'd be an attorney, but he wouldn't be your attorney.

Your attorney should be able to either find the correct answer for you, in your state with the weapons you want or find an attorney who does know and refer you to him.
 
I'm not an lawyer but I have a couple answer you can ponder.

Laws do vary by state when it comes to a trust.

The trust is allowed to own supressor, machine guns, destructive devises and what is considered AOW (any other weapon).

Not sure about manufacture but a trust can make suppressors, using a form 1.

Benefits of a trust were to allow a person who lived in an area that the CLOE was not gun friendly. You didn't need a sign off using he trust route. The new rules make this moot as now all you have to do is notify, not get permission. One thing a trust is still good for is allowing more than one person to have possession of the NFA item. Any responsible party as defined in the trust is allowed to have possession whereas if an individual owns it, that individual is the only one to have unsupervised possession.

If you search NFA Trust Lawyers, you will be able to find someone who has all the answers you'll have.
 
Some suppressor mfr's give or sell trusts with a product. Most likely generic, they will suffice in most states, but it would be up to you to verify if legal in your state.
 
Contact David M. Goldman in Florida. He specializes in NFA trusts. You can get in trouble with a standard attorney trying to do NFA trusts.The bitch is you will not know until late it is to late. Most attorneys do not have a clue as how to do a NFA trust. In your post you wrote that your attorney could not answer any of your questions RUN from him. I am offering this advice because I spent 6 months researching NFA trusts not wanting to get tangled up with the law buzzards
 
When I had my attorney write mine up, I also got with my financial advisors (fa). We made sure of 2 things:

1.) The gun trust is completely separate from any financial moneys held in any other vehicle. (ira, 401k, interitance, financial gifts to to other family members, etc)

2.) The items in the gun trust upon my passing are held/executed by a completely different attorney than the finanical distributions.

These 2 things will ensure that if anything ever did happen with a class 3 item in terms of a crime or other legal incident that the monies you currently have / are accruing / giving to your heirs are not liable and can not be held up in court if you are sued.


Also i agree with ODIE above...make sure they are versed in NFA trusts
 
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When I had my attorney write mine up, I also got with my financial advisors (fa). We made sure of 2 things:

1.) The gun trust is completely separate from any financial moneys held in any other vehicle. (ira, 401k, interitance, financial gifts to to other family members, etc)

2.) The items in the gun trust upon my passing are held/executed by a completely different attorney than the finanical distributions.

These 2 things will ensure that if anything ever did happen with a class 3 time in terms of a crime or other legal incident that the monies you currently have / are accruing / giving to your heirs are not liable and can not be held up in court if you are sued.


Also i agree with ODIE above...make sure they are versed in NFA trusts

^^^^A must, good point.
 
I'm not an lawyer but I have a couple answer you can ponder.

Laws do vary by state when it comes to a trust.

The trust is allowed to own supressor, machine guns, destructive devises and what is considered AOW (any other weapon).

Not sure about manufacture but a trust can make suppressors, using a form 1.


Benefits of a trust were to allow a person who lived in an area that the CLOE was not gun friendly. You didn't need a sign off using he trust route. The new rules make this moot as now all you have to do is notify, not get permission. One thing a trust is still good for is allowing more than one person to have possession of the NFA item. Any responsible party as defined in the trust is allowed to have possession whereas if an individual owns it, that individual is the only one to have unsupervised possession.

If you search NFA Trust Lawyers, you will be able to find someone who has all the answers you'll have.

Very great points above. The main item I am interested in is highlighted.

Some suppressor mfr's give or sell trusts with a product. Most likely generic, they will suffice in most states, but it would be up to you to verify if legal in your state.

Good Point, will follow instructions.

1.) The gun trust is completely separate from any financial moneys held in any other vehicle. (ira, 401k, interitance, financial gifts to to other family members, etc)

Already advised of this.

I was also advised to store all components in a safe with only the trustees knowing the combination.

Please understand, many heads looking into this is better than one trying to figure it out, the reason I am seeking all help I can. I want to be legal across the board.

I understand only 1 stamp can be accuired per item in the trust. If anyone knows different just let me know. I do know an Attorney who is well versed with these regulations, just getting my question list ready.

Thanks for all the help, and please add to the list if you see something missing.

Dennis
 
The main benefit (and reason for popularity) of the trust was that it allowed you to obtain an NFA item without having to obtain the signature of your local sheriff/CLEO and get finger prints/photos, etc. It was simpler and less intrusive of a process, and was your only option if you had an unfriendly local chief law enforcement officer.

The side benefit of the trust is that it was relatively easy to add other trustees so you could have multiple people who were authorized to use your NFA item.

There really isn't much of an advantage to a trust for estate planning or passing on an NFA item to your heirs. If you are an individual owner that can still be done through your estate as part of the normal probate process, and just requires some basic forms be filed by your heir with the ATF to transfer it into their name. I don't think they even need to pay a fee.

Any claims of legal protection by having a trust are dubious. You can bet that if something went sideways with the NFA item and there was a suit, they would sue both the trust and any individuals involved in the trust or the incident. Doesn't matter that a trust owned the item, they can still sue you the individual.

With the new NFA rules coming into play on July 13th, the main benefit of the trust is erased. Now no one needs CLEO sign off, and everyone (trust or individual) needs fingerprints/photos. Roadblocks are removed and hassle factor is about the same. There is still the ability of a trust to add new trustees post purchase, *however* the catch is that for any subsequent purchases all the trustees need to provide fingerprints/photos, so that hassle might outweigh the benefit.

Takeaway is that once the new ATF rules go into effect, you are going to see a *drastic* reduction in the number of purchases made using a trust. People will just buy as an individual since the process is the same and there's no need to pay to have a trust set up to avoid prints/photos/CLEO sign off anymore.
 
The main benefit (and reason for popularity) of the trust was that it allowed you to obtain an NFA item without having to obtain the signature of your local sheriff/CLEO and get finger prints/photos, etc. It was simpler and less intrusive of a process, and was your only option if you had an unfriendly local chief law enforcement officer.

The side benefit of the trust is that it was relatively easy to add other trustees so you could have multiple people who were authorized to use your NFA item.

There really isn't much of an advantage to a trust for estate planning or passing on an NFA item to your heirs. If you are an individual owner that can still be done through your estate as part of the normal probate process, and just requires some basic forms be filed by your heir with the ATF to transfer it into their name. I don't think they even need to pay a fee.

Any claims of legal protection by having a trust are dubious. You can bet that if something went sideways with the NFA item and there was a suit, they would sue both the trust and any individuals involved in the trust or the incident. Doesn't matter that a trust owned the item, they can still sue you the individual.

With the new NFA rules coming into play on July 13th, the main benefit of the trust is erased. Now no one needs CLEO sign off, and everyone (trust or individual) needs fingerprints/photos. Roadblocks are removed and hassle factor is about the same. There is still the ability of a trust to add new trustees post purchase, *however* the catch is that for any subsequent purchases all the trustees need to provide fingerprints/photos, so that hassle might outweigh the benefit.

Takeaway is that once the new ATF rules go into effect, you are going to see a *drastic* reduction in the number of purchases made using a trust. People will just buy as an individual since the process is the same and there's no need to pay to have a trust set up to avoid prints/photos/CLEO sign off anymore.
Good information, and mitigate's another expense!
 
There really isn't much of an advantage to a trust for estate planning or passing on an NFA item to your heirs. If you are an individual owner that can still be done through your estate as part of the normal probate process, and just requires some basic forms be filed by your heir with the ATF to transfer it into their name. I don't think they even need to pay a fee.

No trust, new owner, new stamp. I think this was the biggest benefit of a trust, so heirs didn't have to reapply and pay again.
Also, say you have NFA items, (cans, sbrs, etc..) without a trust and want to add to a trust you just hade made, you're going through the process and paying for the stamp again.
Tax stamps are awarded to people-trusts, not the piece.
 
Note this is not legal advice. But it is free! I read this NFA response and I’m not sure that I interpret it the same and I seen no mention of “Trust” in this response. As I understand it, the individuals (or heirs) that are identified in the Trust can legally have procession and use of the item without having to apply for a stamp under their name. Since the NFA item actually belongs to the Trust. So long as these individuals keep a copy of the original stamp and trust in their procession they should not have any problems with the Feds. That’s the way we are going forth with it anyway.
 

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