Gun shops getting insurance canceled

[Kevin1990]

You know what, I’m going to counter, my own counter point. I partially take back my statement. When you are so big that you can’t fail, and there are only a certain number of said companies to choose from, because start up costs for an insurance company are astronomical, then I think a line has to be drawn.

I had a disagreement with my uncle this holiday about internet providers. We only have 2 two choose from here. He said “well then go start your own internet company.” The problem with that is it’s been monopolized and regulated so much that starting a competing business would be near impossible. So these people like this insurance company are indeed scum. The guy from the bakery has a million other choices. The guy looking for insurance not so much. So it comes down to availability...I guess. If you bring morals and philosophy and do some mental gymnastics, denying somone coverage, should be illegal. Especially if they would insure a gas station, or fertilizer plant but not a gun shop.

 

[DiffEQ]

As I said, it's probably their excuse. Insurance companies will make up all kinds of stupid things to get out of covering stuff and if anti-gun is their agenda companies will do the same. I know someone that had barns get destroyed in a storm and their insurance company was denying paying for one because livestock went into that building. Go figure, it's a barn. After that we checked with our insurance at Farm Bureau to make sure our barns were covered for what was in them and their use.

Cows are Big Tobacco's best customers, after all. ;-)

Based on the experience of two friends, their businesses and Farmers, I never considered them as an option. When I ran my own business, I had the darndest time finding insurers to cover me for E&O + BIPD. It took a lot of digging, but I found an underwriter named Red Shield. They were awesome, and also inexpensive.
In seventeen years, I never had a claim, so I have no idea how good they really were - but in my business, you didn't make it to the bidding table unless you could demonstrate $1M of coverage in Liability and BIPD.
For real property and company vehicles, I just used State Farm. They were fantastic to work with.

 

[Brians356]

If you bring morals and philosophy and do some mental gymnastics, denying somone coverage, should be illegal.

That level of gymnastics is beyond my ken. But it's not a black/white problem for me, modern life is vexatious. I just object to blithe knee-jerk suggestions that all we need are more regulatory mandates slapped on businesses.
-

 

[KMart]

Low hanging fruit to a failing insurance industry. Wait until your home owners insurance gets cancelled because of what state you live in.

Or what side of the highway you live on. I own 2 houses. One is 1 mile north of the hwy. The other house is 5 miles away to the east and 2 miles south of the same hwy. My agent for the last 30 years cannot write a policy on on the house that is 2 miles south.
Both the agent and I are life long residents of this area.

 

[NorCalMikie]

For real property and company vehicles, I just used State Farm. They were fantastic to work with.

That's debatable!! State Farm threatened me by telling my that they were going to cancel my Homeowners Ins. I came back at them and mentioned they were trying to dump the little guys because they had their AZZES handed to them when we had BIG fires in our Valley.
Only been insured with them for 50+ years. Never filed a homeowners claim. Only one auto claim when a deer committed suicide by running into my car.
I made sure to tell them that if they planned to cancel my homeowners policy, to also cancel my auto policies and I would send them a list of family members that would also be canceling THEIR policies.
Funny thing? Never heard another word from them. They just kept sending the bill.

Just make it a point to NOT let them push YOU around!!
Same with the BIG GUY banks. Always trying to scam the little guys. Some day, after a BUNCH of little guys get tired or getting jerked around and take their $$$ and go somewhere else, someone at the bank will say, WTF happened to our customers???
They can only push you around if you LET THEM!!

 

[Bill Rodolph]

When I had my gunshop, I used Lockton thru the NRA and never had any problems. I think that is who our gun club has its insurance with as well. They cater to the gun industry.

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc.​

About | Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc

For over 40 years, Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc. has been providing comprehensive insurance plans for businesses in the firearms industry. Learn more here.

www.guninsurance.com

Having worked in the industry for 17 years. I have never had a problem with Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc. I don't use them personally, but organizations I have worked with use them and provide me with COI's to use facilities that I oversee.

Also have worked with Lockton (NRA), and have had no problems with them either.

 

[wedgy]

My local shop Cobra Tactical is also a smith and manufactures AR lowers. They have been in the same location for 15 years but the landlord says they have to go as his insurance is $20K higher because of them. Two of the seven units in the building are vacant and this will make three vacant units. LA County and the local city have some ordinances that prevent gun shops within 1,000 feet of a school, etc. which is making hard to find a new location. However a sporting goods store like Turners or Big 5 is exempt. I told him to sell some fishing poles or basket balls. So far it looks like he will have to buy some land and build his own building but as of now they will be closing in March when they have to be out. Fifteen years and 10 employees gone.

 

[Bill Clifton]

Cows are Big Tobacco's best customers, after all. ;-)

Based on the experience of two friends, their businesses and Farmers, I never considered them as an option. When I ran my own business, I had the darndest time finding insurers to cover me for E&O + BIPD. It took a lot of digging, but I found an underwriter named Red Shield. They were awesome, and also inexpensive.
In seventeen years, I never had a claim, so I have no idea how good they really were - but in my business, you didn't make it to the bidding table unless you could demonstrate $1M of coverage in Liability and BIPD.
For real property and company vehicles, I just used State Farm. They were fantastic to work with.

Be glad you didn't have a claim because State Farm was horrible from our experience. Them and Allstate were the worst insurance companies to deal with when we had a lot of storm damage in our area. From my experience as well as feedback from my roofer and several other roofers and contractors I know. They sent out some adjuster that had an attitude to begin with and wanted to deny claim on our roof measuring and nit picking the exact placement of the nails in a couple shingles as if that allowed the tabs on the entire roof to rip off and the shingles themselves rip apart. Farm Bureau never even questioned on my parents house a half mile away and the shingles on that house and shop were old and needed to be replaced anyway. All installed by the same roofer. After that debacle we switched to Farm Bureau.

 

[Rocketvapor]

The gun shop owner probably needs his own business insurance in addition to the complex having insurance. Coverage for the complex likely is for flood, fire, falling trees, or cars falling on the roof.
Op said 30 to 40 units, insurance being dropped.
Just because the "Gun Shop" doesn't presently sell gunpowder and primers it is a class of business that could, tomorrow. I bet it would get dropped if there was a biker bar, or Texas Road House on the property . (I have nothing against biker bars).

This is bigger than insurance for one business. Trying to find insurance for the complex is the problem, not finding gun shop insurance. This is like an apartment building needing insurance, with renters needing insurance for their belongings. If you rent don't mention all the powder and primers you have in your man cave.

Insurance companies look at risk/return. Law suits against gun sellers on the rise (even those that are lost) and high value robberies of guns, area crime statistics, and democrats, operating a gun business on someone else's property puts you at their mercy .
Unless the gun shop owner can find property insurance for the landlord it sounds like someone might have to move.

 

[Brians356]

Or what side of the highway you live on. I own 2 houses. One is 1 mile north of the hwy. The other house is 5 miles away to the east and 2 miles south of the same hwy. My agent for the last 30 years cannot write a policy on on the house that is 2 miles south.
Both the agent and I are life long residents of this area.

-

 

[Steel Mover]

You get what you vote for....Control is what you see in this, exerted over the banks, credit card companies and now insurance companies, all are regulated industries in DC. Insurance is DC and the states, both. Make no mistake, it is not a coincidence that we are seeing multiple layers of abuse of due process, laws on the books, regulations, legal president, and personal freedoms out of DC.....

 

[dakor]

Can any of you recommend an industry specific insurance company? I work in a small gunsmithing shop and it seems the insurance guy is always threatening to cancel for one reason or another.

This is who I have been using.

Firearms Business Insurance | Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc

Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc. is a New Jersey-based insurance company offering policies for businesses in the firearms industry. Request a quote today.

www.guninsurance.com

I have never had to file a claim but they offer insurance for the firearms industry including shooting ranges, gunsmiths, ammo makers and so on.

They used to use Granite for the Insurance company but switched to Berkshire 2 years ago.

 

[JTEX]

Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc.​

About | Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc

For over 40 years, Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc. has been providing comprehensive insurance plans for businesses in the firearms industry. Learn more here.

www.guninsurance.com

Having worked in the industry for 17 years. I have never had a problem with Joseph Chiarello & Co., Inc. I don't use them personally, but organizations I have worked with use them and provide me with COI's to use facilities that I oversee.

Also have worked with Lockton (NRA), and have had no problems with them either.

That is also who I set us up,with at my gun club. Very easy to deal with, but we have never had a claim....

 

[DiffEQ]

That's debatable!! State Farm threatened me by telling my that they were going to cancel my Homeowners Ins. I came back at them and mentioned they were trying to dump the little guys because they had their AZZES handed to them when we had BIG fires in our Valley.
Only been insured with them for 50+ years. Never filed a homeowners claim. Only one auto claim when a deer committed suicide by running into my car.
I made sure to tell them that if they planned to cancel my homeowners policy, to also cancel my auto policies and I would send them a list of family members that would also be canceling THEIR policies.
Funny thing? Never heard another word from them. They just kept sending the bill.

Just make it a point to NOT let them push YOU around!!
Same with the BIG GUY banks. Always trying to scam the little guys. Some day, after a BUNCH of little guys get tired or getting jerked around and take their $$$ and go somewhere else, someone at the bank will say, WTF happened to our customers???
They can only push you around if you LET THEM!!

I'd have been pizzed too. They did cancel my homeowner's policy once, ages ago, because my roof was in such bad shape. Literally, their letter came and the roof replaced within a week of each other. I sent pictures and they re-issued coverage instantly. I stayed with them because no one else would match their price. I've been with that same agent for over 30 years.

Be glad you didn't have a claim because State Farm was horrible from our experience. Them and Allstate were the worst insurance companies to deal with when we had a lot of storm damage in our area. From my experience as well as feedback from my roofer and several other roofers and contractors I know.

I'm sorry to read that.
I had two home claims, a robbery and flooding, one auto claim and one destroyed business laptop. They paid without quibble or push back, and in the case of the auto claim, paid for my defense in the matter and the $7,000 mediation settlement (people filed suit for $50K). Twice they paid for a new windshield and headlight lenses (I didn't even file a claim for any of them). Another time, I called my agent asking for a reference for a good arborist to remove a tree that threatened my house. They paid for the removal.
I'd been rear-ended twice by texting drivers, and SF covered everything, including 100% lost wages, compensated me fairly (IMO) for both cars (totaled). Of course, all that was subrogated.
Compared to how I was treated by Nationwide, Allstate or Liberty Mutual for different issues, SF has been a great insurance partner.

 

[Dave M.]

EFF FARMERS. We had our home owners insurance with them for 12 years and then we had an incident where a guest of ours was injured at a birthday party. The filed a claim with the insurance company and Farmers told us they would not renew our insurance the following year. Screw those assholes. I hope they go out of business and I go out of my way to tell anyone who will listen what an underhanded scam company they operate. EFF THEM.
Dave