Group size yall strive for?

[WIB3]

Being a 1000yd benchrest shooter, my goal is to break the WR 10 shot group. At Williamsport Pa it is currently 2.815” shot by Matt Kline. Ultimately in my dreams, one ragged hole.

 

[WIB3]

Keep in mind the record is 10 shots.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

From Day One, my testing was MOR*. As I got into BR competition it was to agg five 5-shot groups at 1/2 the size of the Bullseye.

* minute of Rockchuck

 

[bozo699]

So if you truly do like shooting the smallest groups possible come shoot BR with us!!! If you choose LR BR you will be elated and frustrated, sometimes at the same match. You'll find that you are almost as happy when your new buddy who has been working his butt off beats you--by 1/10th of an inch at 1000 yds--as you would have been had you won yourself. You will figure out how to read the wind at one match, then wonder if you ever really knew how at the next match. You will learn what long range accuracy is--the X ring is 1.2" at 600 yds and 3" at 1000. You will find the difference between being lucky and being consistent. Most importantly, your obsessive quest for the smallest group will be valued and shared by all.

INTJ,
Your post made me very happy and brought back some fond memories! 30 some years ago I tried breaking into sr br and although I know there not all that way the group I encountered was very clicky,... ie if you didn’t have a panda action if you didn’t have a March scope an canjar trigger, didn’t shoot Barts bullets and on and on and on you was a idiot and knew nothing!... oh and you had to be 84 years old!... I said to hell with it within months and started shooting varmint rifles and getting them as accurate as I could!... Then I met my friend and gunsmith in 2009 and he said you wanna go to a 1000 yd br match in Missoula Montana with me?.... Are you crazy I said?...I’m not gonna put up with those I’m better than you people!.... he said come on these guys ain’t like that!... I begrudgingly went with a factory 6.5*284 Savage br rifle!.... never could get much better than 1 moa out of it at a thousand but the guys were awesome!.... I was hooked!... soon I had a Barney Lawton action with a Krieger barrel chambered in 6brx. The guys really tutored me!... I hadn’t broke the 6” 10 shot mark yet and I was working hard to achieve it and one day as soon as my relay was over Tom Mousel one of our top shooters actually I think he was on top called over the radio send Wayne down to the pits! I thought oh no what have I done wrong!...Leo Anderson another top shooter in our club, probably #2 was measuring groups,.... Tom was so excited he said get over here!.... what have you been striving for?.....Idk?.... a 6” group?.... yeah he said well then I can’t help ya!.... but would you settle for a little over 5”?.... Hell yeah!.. he pulled my target off the bottom of the pile!.....100 score and 10 small holes in a 5” group!.... I was so excited but not nearly excited as my friends were! What a great bunch of guys and it’s also why I love this forum so much!.... same class of people!
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

INTJ,
Your post made me very happy and brought back some fond memories! 30 some years ago I tried breaking into sr br and although I know there not all that way the group I encountered was very clicky,... ie if you didn’t have a panda action if you didn’t have a March scope an canjar trigger, didn’t shoot Barts bullets and on and on and on you was a idiot and knew nothing!... oh and you had to be 84 years old!... I said to hell with it within months and started shooting varmint rifles and getting them as accurate as I could!... Then I met my friend and gunsmith in 2009 and he said you wanna go to a 1000 yd br match in Missoula Montana with me?.... Are you crazy I said?...I’m not gonna put up with those I’m better than you people!.... he said come on these guys ain’t like that!... I begrudgingly went with a factory 6.5*284 Savage br rifle!.... never could get much better than 1 moa out of it at a thousand but the guys were awesome!.... I was hooked!... soon I had a Barney Lawton action with a Krieger barrel chambered in 6brx. The guys really tutored me!... I hadn’t broke the 6” 10 shot mark yet and I was working hard to achieve it and one day as soon as my relay was over Tom Mousel one of our top shooters actually I think he was on top called over the radio send Wayne down to the pits! I thought oh no what have I done wrong!...Leo Anderson another top shooter in our club, probably #2 was measuring groups,.... Tom was so excited he said get over here!.... what have you been striving for?.....Idk?.... a 6” group?.... yeah he said well then I can’t help ya!.... but would you settle for a little over 5”?.... Hell yeah!.. he pulled my target off the bottom of the pile!.....100 score and 10 small holes in a 5” group!.... I was so excited but not nearly excited as my friends were! What a great bunch of guys and it’s also why I love this forum so much!.... same class of people!
Wayne

Awesome story!

I started LR BR in Tucson in 2005-2007 and the guys were great! I found the same thing when I came back the sport in 2018. The norm is the competitors help each other and you quickly become friends.

 

[eric n]

I strive to shoot a little smaller then the last time every time.

 

[searcher]

I think the ideal group size is the absolute smallest you can get without putting undue rounds on the barrel. If I make an adjustment for wind - I want to KNOW my next round should impact reasonably tight to where I made my adjustment. Knowing it should be within 5" or more doesn't give you the kind of confidence you really want to have. But if 1/2" MOA is all you strive for - that is what you are going to get - best scenario.

 

[Steve Ladino]

For those of you who are driven to find the smallest groups possible with hunting, plinking, or causal target rifles. You REALLY need to start competing in BR, short range (100, 200, 300 yds) or long range (600 & 1000 yds). That obsession with with doing everything possible to shoot the smallest groups is of little benefit in a hunting or plinking rifle but is a needed requirement for BR.

I followed the same path as many. When I became serious about hunting and reloading in 1994 I found that I liked to shoot small groups. As my loading and shooting skills improved I kept striving for smaller groups. That lead me to needlessly heavy hunting rifles and sub optimum bullet choices as I would pick a bullet with mediocre terminal performance if it was even .1 MOA more accurate. Then I had some very poor bullet performance and I started looking for bullets with better terminal performance. I eventually started to build more appropriate weight hunting rifles.

I have found that premium controlled expansion bullets in a sporter weight barrel will reliably average somewhere between .6 and .8 MOA at 100-200 yds. To get there I moderately weight sort brass, cull out any brass with more than about .0015" of neckwall variation, bump the shoulder with FL sizing die, and crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp die. I don't weigh primers, am not fussy about primer crush, don't measure bullets, or seat with a hydro seater. I start testing loads at .020" deep if able and run though a powder charge ladder. I'll mess with seating depth a little to fine tune. Then I go hunting. I would have to tighten things up some for a varmint rig or LR hunting rifle--if I was ever motivated to do that, but even that would not approach what I do for a BR rifle.

For my LR BR rifle I am VERY anal about getting the most consistent accuracy possible. I do many load prep steps that you won't even find out about until you start BR competition. I will indeed pick a bullet that shoots .1 or even .05 MOA tighter. I build a rifle as heavy as the rules allow. I make ZERO compromises in my methods or equipment.

So if you truly do like shooting the smallest groups possible come shoot BR with us!!! If you choose LR BR you will be elated and frustrated, sometimes at the same match. You'll find that you are almost as happy when your new buddy who has been working his butt off beats you--by 1/10th of an inch at 1000 yds--as you would have been had you won yourself. You will figure out how to read the wind at one match, then wonder if you ever really knew how at the next match. You will learn what long range accuracy is--the X ring is 1.2" at 600 yds and 3" at 1000. You will find the difference between being lucky and being consistent. Most importantly, your obsessive quest for the smallest group will be valued and shared by all.

Agree, it's what we do in So. Central Pa.

 

[Downeast]

If I can shoot 1 MOA I'm happy. Most of my shooting buddies are average blue collar Americans with limited financial resources. Most of our rifles are in the $2,000 class, including optics. We shoot FU class and BR (Beer Rest) matches and we strive to have fun. We had one guy that used to shoot BR with us that had some very nice gear but he was never happy. Always complaining about a flier (a small fish in our part of the world) or wind (always nice to have to keep the bugs down), or some other irrelevant problem. We found out later he played "golf" too. Geez...

Honestly, most of us shoot about 1/3 MOA with our store bought rifles which is damn good in my opinion.

 

[Dave Way]

I would say most everyone on this site aims for smaller groups. What group sizes do Yall strive for during load development?
I know we all want one hole groups, but what is an acceptable goal for 1000 yard bench and fclass etc?

I find myself practice shooting at 300 yards and strive for 1/3 moa since 1/2 moa seems to be an easy feat any more. 1" groups at 300 seem to be more of a challenge unless im shooting my 6 dasher

Johnny

For me it has been a moving target, pardon the pun. I enjoy shooting 1,000 yard BR competition, and I do take it rather seriously. 3 years ago my goal was under 5” at 1K with my 300 WSM. After achieving that, I dropped it to under 4” which was achieved with a Dasher. Realizing I still really wasn’t competitive, I sold both rifles and last year had Alex Wheeler build me a 6BR Improved. The goal was consistent 2-3” groups in good conditions. That was accomplished last year so this year my goal was a sub 2” group. After a 2.1xx” and a 2.0xx” I did shoot a 1.8xx” this spring. I can’t wait for matches to start. Time for a new goal but that’s just me.

That’s the great thing about BR, everyone may have different goals but so long as you’re having fun doing something you enjoy, that’s what really matters.

Dave.

 

[M14AMU]

A 50 cent piece at 1000 yards be OK!

 

[bozo699]

For me it has been a moving target, pardon the pun. I enjoy shooting 1,000 yard BR competition, and I do take it rather seriously. 3 years ago my goal was under 5” at 1K with my 300 WSM. After achieving that, I dropped it to under 4” which was achieved with a Dasher. Realizing I still really wasn’t competitive, I sold both rifles and last year had Alex Wheeler build me a 6BR Improved. The goal was consistent 2-3” groups in good conditions. That was accomplished last year so this year my goal was a sub 2” group. After a 2.1xx” and a 2.0xx” I did shoot a 1.8xx” this spring. I can’t wait for matches to start. Time for a new goal but that’s just me.

That’s the great thing about BR, everyone may have different goals but so long as you’re having fun doing something you enjoy, that’s what really matters.

Dave.

Dave,
Where do you compete at usually?
Wayne

 

[Dave Way]

Dave,
Where do you compete at usually?
Wayne

The Original PA 1000 Yard club in PA when I can make it. Harry Jones and Whitehorse in WV. Hawks Ridge in NC. I HAD a minimum of 10 matches scheduled this for year. I have plans to shoot this year in SD at IBS 600 Nationals and Ohio at GBA 1000 Yard nationals if we are ever able to get the season started!


Dave.

 

[bozo699]

The Original PA 1000 Yard club in PA when I can make it. Harry Jones and Whitehorse in WV. Hawks Ridge in NC. I HAD a minimum of 10 matches scheduled this for year. I have plans to shoot this year in SD at IBS 600 Nationals and Ohio at GBA 1000 Yard nationals if we are ever able to get the season started!


Dave.

Since you knew Alex I thought perhaps you had shot in Missoula some and I plan on competing there this year if it ever opens up. Good luck to ya sir and hopefully we can shoot later this month or June
Wayne

 

[Dave Way]

Since you knew Alex I thought perhaps you had shot in Missoula some and I plan on competing there this year if it ever opens up. Good luck to ya sir and hopefully we can shoot later this month or June
Wayne

I shot in MT a couple years ago at IBS Nationals. That’s where I met Alex and decided to sell my other rifles although I was pretty sure they were headed down the road before the match. Some great shooters out there for sure. You will find them to be knowledgeable, friendly and helpful.

Have fun,
Dave.

 

[bozo699]

I shot in MT a couple years ago at IBS Nationals. That’s where I met Alex and decided to sell my other rifles although I was pretty sure they were headed down the road before the match. Some great shooters out there for sure. You will find them to be knowledgeable, friendly and helpful.

Have fun,
Dave.

Dave,
Yes sir I shot there for several years. Great bunch of guys hope to cya there someday,.... thank ya.
Wayne