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Grinches & Flying Pigs ( just a crazy thought)

Grinches & Flying Pigs ( just a crazy thought)

I probably should have saved this for this winter when cabin fever kicks in! However......

Is it possible in our hunt for pointier, higher ogive bullets, with high ballistic coefficients we could be missing something? This is reference to 600 yard shooting/competition. I haven't gotten a chance to test this type of bullets at 1000.


Here it goes! Making a long story short, I wanted to see what kind of results I'd get by making long range bullets on short range bullet dies. I made up a couple of different versions but settled on a 103 gr bullet made on a double radius 7/10 ogive. Compared to a typical long range bullet these are like shooting mini-balls. They have a great deal more bearing surface, a blunt nose and low Ballistic Coefficient. Everything a long range shooter isn't looking for, it's basically a "Flying Pig."

However, at 100 and 200 yards I am getting the type of accuracy I look for in a really good 6PPC. This is shooting the Grinch (Grendel 6.5 case blown out with a 40 degree shoulder) running them 2920 Fps. So far what I'm seeing is a bullet that's easy to tune, highly accurate and appears to lack the ability to throw shots like many of the high BC bullets are so good at!

Really kind of a radical train of thought. I don't know what it is but there is something to it. Perhaps the extra bearing surface helps stabilize the bullet. Maybe it's inherent accuracy of the bullet itself making up for its low ballistic coefficient. I just don't know.

Also I'm not seeing this bullet get kicked around by the wind either. I literally, made these two days before leaving IBS 600 yard Nationals. So it was the first time out with this bullets and the Grinch with an 8 twist barrel. Out of the the 81 shooters or so there were 11 aggs that were better than mine. That's looking at the actual aggs for the 16 record targets. I made the rookie mistake of getting my barrel too hot, and my second group was almost always bigger than my first. But the bullet produced some nice groups (1.190, 1.526, 1.618, 1.988, 1.445) and not bad aggs for the first time out.


Maybe this fits more into the category of "There's more than one way to skin a cat!" Or "How do Bumble Bees fly?" I don't know!

Here are some of the groups I'm talking about.

Those 100 yards 3 shots Groups.

B17E77D9-C962-428A-B8D4-4E3CCC98A23E.jpg
9B9C2C07-000A-4185-B34F-C41F5B8E6D70.jpg



These are 3 shots at 200 yards! Stuck a Pig in the .063 to demonstrate its size.
D9B61581-8C28-462B-8AB6-8355B77789F4.jpg



Nice 600 yard target from the Nationals!

9A120531-3F6B-43B0-A473-0A778D91B9E4.jpg

Go Pigs!

1FF27CF0-678E-4E27-BFC6-5883593BE696.jpg


Go Grinch!

B491ABAD-751C-4A5C-BD78-599EFE6CCC7C.jpg

Bart
 
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Good lookin' bullet. Not quite as sleek as you Dominator but certainly doesn't have a drag chute hanging out back either. It has the "look" of a bullet that would probably be very easy to work with.
 
Do you suppose COG has anything to do with it?
Mr. M

I don't know! My best guess the large amount bearing surface helps keep the bullet from yawing in the barrel. Or maybe it helps stabilize it better. My good friend and bullet die maker George Ulrich shot the Nationals with me. He also made some long range bullets on a short range die. His bullets showed the same thing as mine which is exceptional accuracy, and easy to tune. So it's not just this particular bullet.

Bart
 
Mr. M

I don't know! My best guess the large amount bearing surface helps keep the bullet from yawing in the barrel. Or maybe it helps stabilize it better. My good friend and bullet die maker George Ulrich shot the Nationals with me. He also made some long range bullets on a short range die. His bullets showed the same thing as mine which is exceptional accuracy, and easy to tune. So it's not just this particular bullet.

Bart
Bart, I've made 6.5 147 gr. BT tangent ogives with a long bearing surface and the long range shooter won't even give them a try because they require more elevation than a VLD. Yet I'm told they group tighter than the Vld's and are vary seating depth friendly. I have targets with 10 shot groups at 300 yds. shot with these "PIGS" you can cover with a penny. The only shooters that will try them are the silhouette shooters who tell me they are very accurate and they don't ring the rams, they knock them down.

GOOD LUCK................
Bob Cauterucio
 
Bart, I've made 6.5 147 gr. BT tangent ogives with a long bearing surface and the long range shooter won't even give them a try because they require more elevation than a VLD. Yet I'm told they group tighter than the Vld's and are vary seating depth friendly. I have targets with 10 shot groups at 300 yds. shot with these "PIGS" you can cover with a penny. The only shooters that will try them are the silhouette shooters who tell me they are very accurate and they don't ring the rams, they knock them down.

GOOD LUCK................
Bob Cauterucio

Oh I understand!

No reasons to let results get in the way of a preconceived notion!

Bart
 
yep might as well stay where we are or where people think we should be without really understanding.guess we could go back to shooting punkin balls. or better yet a bullet that's shaped like a football it would have minimum drag.o_O
George I like your quote. It reminds me of what Ferris Pindell said to me about bullet shapes back in the early 60's. "Hell Bob we'd shoot corn cobs if they grouped tight enough". Thanks for you input.

Bob Cauterucio
 
Sounds like a good pill for our 200yd Poker Chip matches in a 6BR. Do you plan on selling any? Been using you're 105 Infinity with pretty good success, but my throat is getting a bit lengthy for that bullet's shape. I don't think it will last another season (8 matches, March- Oct) loading it snuggy to the lands like I do. It's a pretty good barrel, so I'm either going to try different pills or have it set back and stick with your 105s. So far, 108 Bergers do not look promising.
 
George I like your quote. It reminds me of what Ferris Pindell said to me about bullet shapes back in the early 60's. "Hell Bob we'd shoot corn cobs if they grouped tight enough". Thanks for you input.

Bob Cauterucio
lol thats funny and true!
 
Bart, I've made 6.5 147 gr. BT tangent ogives with a long bearing surface and the long range shooter won't even give them a try because they require more elevation than a VLD. Yet I'm told they group tighter than the Vld's and are vary seating depth friendly. I have targets with 10 shot groups at 300 yds. shot with these "PIGS" you can cover with a penny. The only shooters that will try them are the silhouette shooters who tell me they are very accurate and they don't ring the rams, they knock them down.

GOOD LUCK................
Bob Cauterucio
Once I get my 6.5 x55 BJAI built I plan on trying your 147's Bob. In the 6.5 Creed the 141.5's are superb.
 
George I like your quote. It reminds me of what Ferris Pindell said to me about bullet shapes back in the early 60's. "Hell Bob we'd shoot corn cobs if they grouped tight enough". Thanks for you input.

Bob Cauterucio
I was at the range the other week trying to reach a higher node with a well known factory action that has less than stellar extraction. They were a little sticky even though the primers and bases looked good. I had a cleaning rod with a blunted jag attached, always prepared when jamming the lands!, and proceeded to pop it lose by dropping it the last couple of inches. Gots some looks from a fellow shooter and I explained the situation to him. He said "I'll bet if they shoot you'll carry that rod with you". I said I'll duct tape the SOB to the stock!
 
If these "pigs" are more accurate than the 105gr. VLD that Bart makes, he has surely got a winner on his hands. Below is a target that was shot with the 105 Dominators in a 600 yard match. This was a match consisting of four, 5-shot targets. The holes were covered by piasters and were taken off for the photo. I will shoot the new 103 "pigs" at the November match and see how they do. Maybe we can decide on whether pure accuracy trumps higher ballistic coefficient or not???? I am looking forward to testing this new offering by Bart. Good shooting...JamesNew Range Record 004.JPG
 

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