Goodbye Supertrickler?
- Thread starter NiteQwill
- Start date
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Many years ago, I was involved in a lawsuit brought on to my firm from a large corporation. I always had thought that if you didn't do anything wrong - you had nothing to worry about. Wow, was I naive. Answering a lawsuit costs money. If one intends to go to court to be heard, they can kill you during the period of discovery, whereas your attorney must answer to all their requests (many thrown in that shouldn't have anything to do with the suit) - but still - you must answer. And you keep paying your attorney to answer their demands for information. In the end, your attorneys will say they recommend you settle, as there is always that "chance" of losing. They will bring that up right after telling you what the daily court costs are for a jury trial. Staggering. In such a case, Vista can then order your product to not be sold with those features - and request a crazy price to "make them whole" for the units thus sold to date. This is a very effective way for larger corporations with deeper pockets to punish other firms with smaller legal funds. In the end, you could be vindicated - but you have to look at the cost to get there. And it won't be cheap, I can tell you that. While there are laws to prevent companies from suing without merit (called malicious prosecution), it is very difficult to win such a case, should you seek a suit to prove that and recover. While that 50K might sound unreasonable (regardless of whether it is baseless), it may prove to be the lessor in cost. I think that idea another posed of negotiation with Vista would be the best scenario.
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A patent must be defended in order to be valid. Regardless of how big or small the issue may be. So they have precedent (and lots of money) on their side.
Multiracer
Gold $$ Contributor
Precisely what they hope going in. Then the cease and desist order will come.
Why not remove the valve? There must be a other way to empty it.
Rocketvapor
Gold $$ Contributor
Removable rubber CORK?
Then you would only have to pay the $30 per for the 2500 units already sold.
Then you would only have to pay the $30 per for the 2500 units already sold.
According to REX, he has several patent attorneys who have already offered to represent him for FREE. He has stated that Supertrickler is here to STAY and will not be going anywhere.
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Sadly true…
In the Vista patent, it’s surprising that the claim to incorporate a long used drain configuration was approved.
Rocketvapor
Gold $$ Contributor
Someone was taking a nap during a prior art search.
Ccrider
Gold $$ Contributor
That may be good, depending on the quality of the free representation.
Rocketvapor
Gold $$ Contributor
If they thought they could WIN then a court decision could be granted with prejudice, netting a nice fee.
Ambulance chasers sometimes end up working for free.
Ambulance chasers sometimes end up working for free.
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
As a friend who's business was sued for patent infringement said "My lawyers said I can win the suit but I'll go broke doing it!"
The following is not legal advice, just some crazy internet guessing:
With all the bellyaching that Vista doesn't have a valid claim and is just doing a money grab, tell Vista to go pound sand. If Vista really doesn't have a claim, Vista is not going to pony-up the money to bring a patent infringment suit that it will surely loose. Problem solved.
Another thought: To me, a rotating plate with a hole in it to control the flow of a powder is such a basic and old design, that that feature, by itself, can not support an infringement claim. Unless, that is, there was some novel modification claimed in the '719 patent required to make it work for gunpowder in this scale configuration. I am not seeing such a modification, though.
Another option: the prior art search for the '719 patent is very thin. A person could request a re-exam of that patent, but provide a much better prior art search to see if the feature supporting the infringement claim survives the re-examination process. If it doesn't, again, problem solved.
JMHO
With all the bellyaching that Vista doesn't have a valid claim and is just doing a money grab, tell Vista to go pound sand. If Vista really doesn't have a claim, Vista is not going to pony-up the money to bring a patent infringment suit that it will surely loose. Problem solved.
Another thought: To me, a rotating plate with a hole in it to control the flow of a powder is such a basic and old design, that that feature, by itself, can not support an infringement claim. Unless, that is, there was some novel modification claimed in the '719 patent required to make it work for gunpowder in this scale configuration. I am not seeing such a modification, though.
Another option: the prior art search for the '719 patent is very thin. A person could request a re-exam of that patent, but provide a much better prior art search to see if the feature supporting the infringement claim survives the re-examination process. If it doesn't, again, problem solved.
JMHO
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jxb
Gold $$ Contributor
If like me you feel vista outdoors is unfairly bullying a new startup. You can simply write them and express your feelings on the subject. If enough in the shooting community were to complain they would notice, especially if they started thinking this sort of stuff might cause more in lost revenue over coming years than they would gain by pursuing this. It wouldn't take that many people to simply quit purchasing from any of the vista outdoors brands to cause lost revenue exceeding anything they might get from ST. It's not like you're trying to appeal to legal folks, that's impossible. You need to appeal to the marketing folks, those are the ones with all the power, they can shut this down with a simple phone call and will if they think it will impact future sales.
vistaoutdoor.com
Contact Us – Vista Outdoor
vistaoutdoor.com
Rocketvapor
Gold $$ Contributor
Which product lines would we have to boycott to have an impact on their bottom line?
One for sure would be any product that incorporates the questioned patent.
Did the patent (intellectual property) go with the sale to Czechoslovak Group?
One for sure would be any product that incorporates the questioned patent.
Did the patent (intellectual property) go with the sale to Czechoslovak Group?
Small companies have more difficulty pushing back during examination when prior art is dug up from the past in my experience with the patents I have been involved with. Seems like larger companies may be able to frequently get more favorable results on flimsy claims, possibly because they have teams of professionals working on it, vs a couple engineers and the filing lawyer that was hired pretty much hourly to handle the paperwork.
jxb
Gold $$ Contributor
Well for one the sale to Czechoslovak Group is not completed yet, that's another avenue of pressure.
Personally I would have no issues finding other products than any of the brands that vista currently has. While I've always liked RCBS, I don't need to support it going forward, there's many other excellent brands many of which provide superior products for similar pricing.
Personally I would have no issues finding other products than any of the brands that vista currently has. While I've always liked RCBS, I don't need to support it going forward, there's many other excellent brands many of which provide superior products for similar pricing.
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