Goodbye Supertrickler?

[NiteQwill]

Welp, looks like someone may have possibly forgot to hire a parent lawyer...

Some friends did some research, this appears to be the patent: https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/11821719

 

[jthor]

Seems like Vista had it out for them since the beginning. I know they had to change the design of the small tube to a vibrating tube because of the Match Master’s dual tubes. Which I’m curious on how the ATV4 has avoided that with their design.

 

[searcher]

Looks like this won't be easy to shake off. Vista got the patent for this technology as applied to dispensing gun powder - not other things. That they have the patent for such a device will only enrichen the attorneys if this is argued. Vista knows this type of action will probably stop someone from making things that emulate what their products do - but they also have to try and enforce their patent protections. Otherwise - what is the use of getting a patent? Tough deal.

 

[Shinbone]

The Hemeyer/Vista patent has 20 claims. Which claim(s) do they assert you are infringing?

 

[rwj]

The Hemeyer/Vista patent has 20 claims. Which claim(s) do they assert you are infringing?

It would seem to be primarily Claim 7 regarding a rotatable drain feature. Seems like a pretty weak feature in contrast to the primary claim of being a two tube dispensing system to increase the speed and resolution.

 

[Skattergun]

30$ / per might be the cheap way to stay in business?

 

[rwj]

It would seem to be primarily Claim 7 regarding a rotatable drain feature. Seems like a pretty weak feature in contrast to the primary claim of being a two tube dispensing system to increase the speed and resolution.

Figures 4A & 4B depict the reservoir being rotated 90 degrees to align it with the drain port in the housing to empty powder. This is essentially how a ball valve functions… rotate the ball (reservoir) 90 degrees to align the hole with the pipe/tube to permit flow. Patents on this ball valve feature are long expired…

 

[NiteQwill]

Figures 4A & 4B depict the reservoir being rotated 90 degrees to align it with the drain port in the housing to empty powder. This is essentially how a ball valve functions… rotate the ball (reservoir) 90 degrees to align the hole with the pipe/tube to permit flow. Patents on this ball valve feature are long expired…

After listening to a buddy who actually does patent law (and a LR shooter)... It sounds like ST may not have any standing and either they pay $$$ or stop producing. But that was just a quick 10 minute take on it FWIW... (I'm just glad I don't need to pay him for listening to him... )

The error ST may have committed is not hiring a patent attorney prior to look into this matter.

 

[boltfluter]

If you're trickler really needs this feature, just raise the price $30. At your price point $30 more will probably have no effect on sales. Just a thought.
Paul

 

[3Ackleys]

30$ / per might be the cheap way to stay in business?

For sure. The $30 goes in the cost of production column so after they add their margin they will make money. That and the patent attorney my wife's company uses charges $980 per hour.

 

[Rocketvapor]

How many have been sold?
Is that $30 retroactive?

 

[Kracken McGraw]

How many have been sold?
Is that $30 retroactive?

I think it said a lump sum of $50,000 above.

 

[rwj]

After listening to a buddy who actually does patent law (and a LR shooter)... It sounds like ST may not have any standing and either they pay $$$ or stop producing. But that was just a quick 10 minute take on it FWIW... (I'm just glad I don't need to pay him for listening to him... )

The error ST may have committed is not hiring a patent attorney prior to look into this matter.

If a similar commonly used feature can be identified, the claim in the subject patent will be rendered moot.

 

[Jefferson]

negotiate for 20 bucks a pop and be thankful U R still in business

 

[NiteQwill]

If a similar commonly used feature can be identified, the claim in the subject patent will be rendered moot.

Are you in the patent law field? I brought this very same argument up and have been told that it does not hold up in court. This is akin to Apple saying that the pulsox feature is available everywhere, and therefore their watch doesn't violate anything, which they found out is very false recently. So they had to stop selling the Apple Watch.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/21/apple-stops-selling-some-apple-watches-on-web-site-over-patent-dispute.html

Should be added that Rex/ST reached out to RCBS regarding several design issues with the ST and asked if it did violate any patents (hence the vibratory tube versus one that turns). We don't know what the outcome of that conversation and/or if he got that in writing.

 

[rwj]

Are you in the patent law field? I brought this very same argument up and have been told that it does not hold up in court.

I’ve authored patent applications and worked with the lawyers filing them and had to remove some claims because they were discovered to be part of existing patents. Some were current and some were expired.

 

[kiwijohn]

How many have been sold?
Is that $30 retroactive?

Around 2500 units to date. These guys just can't catch a break at the moment, from surgery infections to rolling out new software that folk have trouble coming to grips with. I hope they keep going.

 

[Mastershot]

Nothing will happen, my parmesan cheese has nothing involved in suit. I guess i really need to keep this in mind next time I drain some cheese on my dinner.

 

[jxb]

Since when does a rotating disk equal a sliding tab. The ST is just a sliding tab which is held by a screw on one end, the tab either covers the drain hole or not and yes these are not new. Ones just like what they use on the ST have been used for decades or longer for all sorts of stuff. I think he's getting all worked up over nothing, but I'm no patent attorney. Besides if rcbs isn't part of the vista outdoors sale, just wait a bit longer and they'll likely peddle that too.

If Vista Outdoors don't like the ST competing with them wait until the new IP system is out, it's likely to really give them some grief when it comes to diminishing sales.

 

[jxb]

gotta love chatgpt 3.5... nothing specific but a quick ask of "list known systems that incorporate pivot drain valves, especially those used for any powder substance" produced this response followed by a list of industries to check. Unfortunately no specific items.

"Pivot drain valves are often employed in industrial and manufacturing processes where the controlled discharge of powders or bulk materials is required. These valves are designed to provide a reliable and efficient means of controlling the flow of powders. They are commonly used in industries such as pharmaceuticals, food processing, chemicals, and others."

So if it was me, I'd try to find at least one gunpowder or blackpowder manufacturer that uses pivot valves in any portion of their manufacture process where the powder comes into contact with the value.