Glue In - The Benefits?

[BoydAllen]

I bead blast the bottom of my actions for straight glue in. The fine garnet medium makes the perfect surface for bonding.

I use JB weld.

I think our PPC’s Are fine for a straight glue in. My 30BR is glued and screwed.

A couple of things about my Stiller Viper: Jerry told me that aluminum oxide of the sort that forms on the bare metal is not that strongly attached to the base metal and that that significantly decreases the strength of any adhesive bond. His aluminum bodied actions are specifically designed to be glued in(My Viper does not even have a front action screw hole) and they have a couple of features that increase the security of a glue in. First of all they are anodized, actually hard anodized, which has a much stronger bond to the underlying metal, and which is commonly done to increase the strength of a glued joint. The other thing that you might not notice in most pictures is that the bottoms of the actions are deeply flycut to give a very coarse texture that probably doubles the surface area. In the past I have read that one way to increase the strength of a glue in with something like a Panda where you are dealing with bare aluminum is to prep everything for the glue in and then remove the oxide in the area that is being glued with fine wet and dry abrasive paper to the point where water will bead up, dry the action and then immediately glue it, before oxide has time to form.

 

[X Count]

I bead blast the bottom of my actions for straight glue in. The fine garnet medium makes the perfect surface for bonding.

I use JB weld.

I think our PPC’s Are fine for a straight glue in. My 30BR is glued and screwed.

I've never done a glue in because I wasn't confident enough on getting the process rite.

Do you put an original layer of bedding down first and if so what do you use?

Do you need blast the bedding material or do some other sorry of texturing?

I would have thought you'd need to remove a layer of bedding to allow room for say .010 of glue?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The way I do them is to do a normal pillar bedding job first. Then I degrease the action and bedding. Then I take a carbide burr to the bedding and action. As much as you try to degrease a part, you cant beat exposing fresh material that has never seen the light of day. After I use the burr, I dont touch the surfaces. JB them together in a stress free way.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I've never done a glue in because I wasn't confident enough on getting the process rite.

Do you put an original layer of bedding down first and if so what do you use?

Do you need blast the bedding material or do some other sorry of texturing?

I would have thought you'd need to remove a layer of bedding to allow room for say .010 of glue?

I use Devcon as the bedding, after it sets, I sand it to get the glaze off. I then bead blast the bottom of the action, put a film of JB Weld on both the action and the bedding, and lay the action in.

 

[X Count]

Thanks for the clarification gents! Might have to try it out

 

[Edd]

Why do you guys not just bed them, without using a release agent, and call it good?

 

[Edd]

I bead blast the bottom of my actions for straight glue in. The fine garnet medium makes the perfect surface for bonding.

I use JB weld.

I think our PPC’s Are fine for a straight glue in. My 30BR is glued and screwed.

What grit garnet do you consider fine? I just bought a bag of what they called 80 grit. I was expecting it to be coarser than it is.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Why do you guys not just bed them, without using a release agent, and call it good?

That’s sort of what I do.

But I USE release agent. And just leave it in the stock. The barreled action still doesn’t want to come out easily.

Then when also installing the screws, it’s sorta the best of all worlds.

 

[AlNyhus]

I've fixed several (3) BR glue ins that were stressed. All were quality actions and had been through multiple barrels and scopes....I can't imagine how much money had been needlessly spent trying to make them shoot. Let alone the time and components wasted. If you hear someone talking about how a particular action just won't shoot, that's a clue. Not that there couldn't be an action issue, of course.

Taking a glue in apart muddles up the problem area(s). If you're careful with how you take them apart, you can get a pretty good idea if there's excessive stress.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Rat Rifle]

I've fixed several (3) BR glue ins that were stressed. All were quality actions and had been through multiple barrels and scopes....I can't imagine how much money had been needlessly spent trying to make them shoot. Let alone the time and components wasted. If you hear someone talking about how a particular action just won't shoot, that's a clue. Not that there couldn't be an action issue, of course.

Taking a glue in apart muddles up the problem area(s). If you're careful with how you take them apart, you can get a pretty good idea if there's excessive stress.

Good shootin' -Al

If you don’t mind, what indicates the stress ?

 

[AlNyhus]

If you don’t mind, what indicates the stress ?

How it moves when the epoxy releases. This requires the barrelled action to be supported so there's no droop or upward pressure when the epoxy releases. -Al

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Why do you guys not just bed them, without using a release agent, and call it good?

Depends. I sometimes bed in 3 steps, installing pillars, bedding and then the final glue up. Different epoxies have different characteristics that make some better than others for specific jobs. Marine Tex works great and suffers less shrinkage than any I'm aware of, including Devcon, which is also very good btw. Both have very good compressive strength. Neither have adhesive qualities as good as plain old KB Weld. See where I'm going now, probably..but there are still other factors and reasons. A new stock when inletted, will need a good base, IMO, that the core of most stocks doesn't do well at. So, I mill everything out about .100 deep, set the pillars at the desired height, bed..then scuff it all up and do a glue coat. I don't pay particular attention to how "pretty" the bed coat is if I know I'm gonna follow it up with a glue coat. If it's not getting glued, I try to make them as pretty as I can but frankly, if all else is done right, that's mostly just cosmetics and doesn't make it good or bad..just ugly if it has a bubble somewhere. I don't think you can properly fix a bubble without starting over..scuffing the bedding and doing it all over. Same goes for bedding recoil lugs. I don't think it can be done to suit myself without doing the whole thing. One of those things that sounds like it should work, but doesn't.

Hope that helps

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

How it moves when the epoxy releases. This requires the barrelled action to be supported so there's no droop or upward pressure when the epoxy releases. -Al

Another reason I usually do glue and screws in 3 steps. I can wrap the bbl with tape or even thick heat shrink tubing while setting the pillars and/or bedding but finish with the glue coat, with no bbl. The glue ends up being the final fitment tool. Some do and some don't, but I never use the center screw on actions that have a hole for it.

 

[AlNyhus]

On the subject of the barrelled action releasing when the heat get to a certain point....be careful.

This is a Panda glue in I took apart. By my digital temp gun, it was right at 285 degrees.

I let the action get against my leg when I was setting it down. If you look close, you can see 'Stolle-Panda' and the serial number.

 

[AlNyhus]

Some do and some don't, but I never use the center screw on actions that have a hole for it.

On the flat bottomed 3 screw actions, you're almost guaranteed to get a high spot in the bedding if you use the center screw. On the round actions, it's less of an issue...provided the epoxy goes down the center and pushes up the sides. If the sides are buttered up on a round action with a center screw, they can get high spotted too. On a round 700 clone solid bottom, a center screw and floating the action/tang from the trigger cut rearward works good.

2 cents worth from Fly Over Country.... -Al

 

[xr650rRider]

On the subject of the barrelled action releasing when the heat get to a certain point....be careful.

This is a Panda glue in I took apart. By my digital temp gun, it was right at 285 degrees.

I let the action get against my leg when I was setting it down. If you look close, you can see 'Stolle-Panda' and the serial number.

So never work on guns nude, I would have thought that would have been a given.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

On the flat bottomed 3 screw actions, you're almost guaranteed to get a high spot in the bedding if you use the center screw. On the round actions, it's less of an issue...provided the epoxy goes down the center and pushes up the sides. If the sides are buttered up on a round action with a center screw, they can get high spotted too. On a round 700 clone solid bottom, a center screw and floating the action/tang from the trigger cut rearward works good.

2 cents worth from Fly Over Country.... -Al

I have mixed feelings on the XP cut that several actions now have too. Looks good, sounds good...but what good is it, really when it could pose more of a problem than a solution.

 

[AlNyhus]

I have mixed feelings on the XP cut that several actions now have too.

Yes...the front and rear edges should be 90 degrees. -Al

 

[AlNyhus]

So never work on guns nude, I would have thought that would have been a given.

That's a very bad mental image. More like wear jeans or be a bit more careful!

Any time it's over 40, I'm wearing shorts. Up here, I stretch the seasons out as much as possible. It was 46 the other day and I was chopping ice at the bottom of my driveway wearing shorts. -Al

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yes...the front and rear edges should be 90 degrees. -Al

I don't know about that. I generally don't like sharp corners.