Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Ok, I'll play assuming the closest one wins.
My guess is .121", sorry Rodger! ;D
Ok, I'll play assuming the closest one wins.
My guess is .121", sorry Rodger! ;D
Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
- Thread starter tclaunch
- Start date
tclaunch
Silver $$ Contributor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
It has been my goal, and funding to find what I consider the most universal freebore length for a case with such a short neck. I have found that my idea has led me in a good direction. I just wanted to see what the readers here had to say. This is 1 example of 3 that I have tried.
Erik, Monte Hall would be sooo proud!!! ;D
I had my first BRX reamer made in 2008, and It shoud shame the maker by placing the drawing on here.
I guess we all had a learning curve, just some will admit it and some not. Glad to be past that advise.
It has been my goal, and funding to find what I consider the most universal freebore length for a case with such a short neck. I have found that my idea has led me in a good direction. I just wanted to see what the readers here had to say. This is 1 example of 3 that I have tried.
Erik, Monte Hall would be sooo proud!!! ;D
I had my first BRX reamer made in 2008, and It shoud shame the maker by placing the drawing on here.
I guess we all had a learning curve, just some will admit it and some not. Glad to be past that advise.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Uhh - hate to say this but the reamer print shown in the photos does not comport with the numbers you mention above. The "max case" on that reamer print is 1.565" (not 1.570") and what's the deal with the -0- free bore on the reamer print but a hand written note saying it was .077"?
Robert Whitley
fdshuster said:
Uhh - hate to say this but the reamer print shown in the photos does not comport with the numbers you mention above. The "max case" on that reamer print is 1.565" (not 1.570") and what's the deal with the -0- free bore on the reamer print but a hand written note saying it was .077"?
Robert Whitley
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
rcw3: When I phone ordered the reamer I requested a zero freebore, the next day Dave Kiff called & said that would not work because of the short neck on the 6 BRX case. He went to his optical comparator, plugged-in the 107 SMK that I said I wanted to use, and I wanted it to touch the lands, with the full .243" dia. ( not the boatail) about .010" in front of the neck/shoulder junction. He came up with the .077" FB dimension. The reamer is marked .077" FB. This is the reamer drawing they e-mailed after I received the reamer and I made the note changing the FB to .077".
Yes, you are correct concerning the length: it is 1.565". My 6BR reamers are 1.570".
rcw3: When I phone ordered the reamer I requested a zero freebore, the next day Dave Kiff called & said that would not work because of the short neck on the 6 BRX case. He went to his optical comparator, plugged-in the 107 SMK that I said I wanted to use, and I wanted it to touch the lands, with the full .243" dia. ( not the boatail) about .010" in front of the neck/shoulder junction. He came up with the .077" FB dimension. The reamer is marked .077" FB. This is the reamer drawing they e-mailed after I received the reamer and I made the note changing the FB to .077".
Yes, you are correct concerning the length: it is 1.565". My 6BR reamers are 1.570".
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Frank & Robert,
As you guys both know, some folks prefer to order reamers with zero freebore and use a throating reamer to move it forward. The given rationale is that it makes the reamer more versatile.
I prefer to order the reamer with the intended freebore and do it in one pass. I have used a throating reamer to experimentally extend a .308 Win barrel out to .280" freebore for Berger 230 Hybrids and it worked well.
Frank & Robert,
As you guys both know, some folks prefer to order reamers with zero freebore and use a throating reamer to move it forward. The given rationale is that it makes the reamer more versatile.
I prefer to order the reamer with the intended freebore and do it in one pass. I have used a throating reamer to experimentally extend a .308 Win barrel out to .280" freebore for Berger 230 Hybrids and it worked well.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Got it - - but .077" is too short with that set up for the 107's to have their bearing surface all up in the neck. More like a .125" free bore is where you need to be for that with the 107's and your set up (at least it is that way with the BRX reamers I have).
Thanks for the reply - have a happy new year!
Robert
fdshuster said:
Got it - - but .077" is too short with that set up for the 107's to have their bearing surface all up in the neck. More like a .125" free bore is where you need to be for that with the 107's and your set up (at least it is that way with the BRX reamers I have).
Thanks for the reply - have a happy new year!
Robert
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
rcw3: Nope! Got that dimension direct from Dave Kiff, after I told him I wanted to touch the lands and have the full .243" bullet diameter about .010" in front of the neck/shoulder junction, where it would be in front of the donut(s) that may form.
That's exactly where the 107 SMK's are seated, about +.010" more now after 1000 rounds of throat erosion.
Holding a loaded round in my hand as we "speak" with a bullet alongside, tips are in line & bullet base is in front of neck/shoulder.
The absolute bottom (base) of the bullet is in-line with the shoulder/body junction., and at 33 grains of Varget, does not interfere with powder capacity.
length from the base to ogive with my Stoney Point gauge is 1.769", and over-all-length with the differing bullet lengths is 2.355" to 2.360".
Wish my older ( 4 years) digital camera would focus at a closer distance, as did the pics posted by tclaunch, but any closer & they would be blurry.
rcw3: Nope! Got that dimension direct from Dave Kiff, after I told him I wanted to touch the lands and have the full .243" bullet diameter about .010" in front of the neck/shoulder junction, where it would be in front of the donut(s) that may form.
That's exactly where the 107 SMK's are seated, about +.010" more now after 1000 rounds of throat erosion.
Holding a loaded round in my hand as we "speak" with a bullet alongside, tips are in line & bullet base is in front of neck/shoulder.
The absolute bottom (base) of the bullet is in-line with the shoulder/body junction., and at 33 grains of Varget, does not interfere with powder capacity.
length from the base to ogive with my Stoney Point gauge is 1.769", and over-all-length with the differing bullet lengths is 2.355" to 2.360".
Wish my older ( 4 years) digital camera would focus at a closer distance, as did the pics posted by tclaunch, but any closer & they would be blurry.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
fdschuster
I don't want to argue with you, but I believe if you have your reamer certified you may find it's not a .077" free bore (as you may have been told) or other dimensions may be off. The BRX reamer I have that is posted on my website was certified for dimensional accuracy to the print. It has a 1.563" "max case" and a .120" free bore with a one and a half degree throat angle and a 107 Sierra hits the rifling with the junction of the boat tail and bearing surface of the bullet just barely ahead of the neck and shoulder of the case. Attached is a picture showing where a Sierra 107 hits the lands on a new chamber. The reamer drawing I am referring to can be viewed here http://www.6mmar.com/6mmBRX.php
Robert
Click on photo for blow up
fdschuster
I don't want to argue with you, but I believe if you have your reamer certified you may find it's not a .077" free bore (as you may have been told) or other dimensions may be off. The BRX reamer I have that is posted on my website was certified for dimensional accuracy to the print. It has a 1.563" "max case" and a .120" free bore with a one and a half degree throat angle and a 107 Sierra hits the rifling with the junction of the boat tail and bearing surface of the bullet just barely ahead of the neck and shoulder of the case. Attached is a picture showing where a Sierra 107 hits the lands on a new chamber. The reamer drawing I am referring to can be viewed here http://www.6mmar.com/6mmBRX.php
Robert
Click on photo for blow up
Attachments
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
As a postscript to the posting just above this one, I also have a PT&G (Kiff) 6mm BRX reamer that was separately certified and has a 1.5647 "max case" and a .1209" free bore with a one and a half degree throat angle and a Sierra 107 hits the lands at almost the exact same place as the certified JGS reamer posted on my website page.
If there is not a separate certification indicating that the reamer is made to the print, you never really know what you have and whether the reamer you have was made to the print (and I have seen more than a few that are quite a bit different than the print they were supposed to be made from).
Robert
As a postscript to the posting just above this one, I also have a PT&G (Kiff) 6mm BRX reamer that was separately certified and has a 1.5647 "max case" and a .1209" free bore with a one and a half degree throat angle and a Sierra 107 hits the lands at almost the exact same place as the certified JGS reamer posted on my website page.
If there is not a separate certification indicating that the reamer is made to the print, you never really know what you have and whether the reamer you have was made to the print (and I have seen more than a few that are quite a bit different than the print they were supposed to be made from).
Robert
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Robert: No. I don't want to argue either, look at it as a "discussion". That's exactly what my seated 107 SMK looks like when seated to touch.
How close are you to my base to ogive dimension, if you have the Stoney Point gauge? I realize there would be some differences with 2 different gauges, even when made by the same manufacturer. How about your loaded O.A.L.?
Just tried to get my camera focused on the ident markings on the reamers that says: .077 FB, but as usual it was badly blurred.
Copy of the bill of sale attached, so what are you saying: The reamer is marked as .077" but I really have .107"? Frank
Robert: No. I don't want to argue either, look at it as a "discussion". That's exactly what my seated 107 SMK looks like when seated to touch.
How close are you to my base to ogive dimension, if you have the Stoney Point gauge? I realize there would be some differences with 2 different gauges, even when made by the same manufacturer. How about your loaded O.A.L.?
Just tried to get my camera focused on the ident markings on the reamers that says: .077 FB, but as usual it was badly blurred.
Copy of the bill of sale attached, so what are you saying: The reamer is marked as .077" but I really have .107"? Frank
Attachments
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
fdschuster
FWIW, I am not doubting what you were told or is printed on your reamer or on your receipt, but I have actual separate written inspector tooling certifications for the reamers I am referring to, it's the way to go if you really want to know what you have and are working with. The Sierra 107 in the picture hits the lands with a bullet OAL of 2.413".
Robert
fdschuster
FWIW, I am not doubting what you were told or is printed on your reamer or on your receipt, but I have actual separate written inspector tooling certifications for the reamers I am referring to, it's the way to go if you really want to know what you have and are working with. The Sierra 107 in the picture hits the lands with a bullet OAL of 2.413".
Robert
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Robert: Your over-all-length is approx. 2.413" and mine is approx. 2.360", so the difference is .053".
Add .053" to my .077" and you get .130", close enough considering the differences in bullet lengths.
Or, to look at it another way, subtract .053" from .120" and get .067", again "in the ballpark".
I always try to seat my bullets to touch with the base as close to the neck/shoulder junction as possible. Have had a couple of instances when I took an in stock reamer, ready for delivery that had more FB than I wanted, but was anxious to get my hands on it. Sure enough when there was still plenty of life remaining in the barrel, because of erosion, I could no longer seat to touch & keep the bullet/neck contact within an acceptable length, so had to start jumping them. Most times accuracy went downhill.
So this chambering (whatever it really is) has been a good one.
I did notice that tclaunch's 107 SMK is seated approx. 1/2 of the way up the neck. Not much left to work with as more erosion develops.
Robert: Your over-all-length is approx. 2.413" and mine is approx. 2.360", so the difference is .053".
Add .053" to my .077" and you get .130", close enough considering the differences in bullet lengths.
Or, to look at it another way, subtract .053" from .120" and get .067", again "in the ballpark".
I always try to seat my bullets to touch with the base as close to the neck/shoulder junction as possible. Have had a couple of instances when I took an in stock reamer, ready for delivery that had more FB than I wanted, but was anxious to get my hands on it. Sure enough when there was still plenty of life remaining in the barrel, because of erosion, I could no longer seat to touch & keep the bullet/neck contact within an acceptable length, so had to start jumping them. Most times accuracy went downhill.
So this chambering (whatever it really is) has been a good one.
I did notice that tclaunch's 107 SMK is seated approx. 1/2 of the way up the neck. Not much left to work with as more erosion develops.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
Therein lies the key to all this - - if it works well for you and you are happy with it, then everything else really does not matter. I only feel compelled to get certifications because I post the reamers on my website and people request info on the reamers, where bullets hit the lands, etc. and I need to know that the info I am giving is as accurate as it can be because others are counting on it to be so.
Good shooting in the New Year!
Robert
fdshuster said:
Therein lies the key to all this - - if it works well for you and you are happy with it, then everything else really does not matter. I only feel compelled to get certifications because I post the reamers on my website and people request info on the reamers, where bullets hit the lands, etc. and I need to know that the info I am giving is as accurate as it can be because others are counting on it to be so.
Good shooting in the New Year!
Robert
tclaunch
Silver $$ Contributor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX
If you 2 are done for a minute, we can get back to our regularly sheduled discussion. FD didn`t remember I have more than 1 dog in this so here is another example of freebore done at my expense of another reamer. It is much better suited for his use of the 107 Sierra Matchking.
First in the same order is the Berger 105 VLD
Next is the Berger 108 BT
Once again the 108 Bib
And finally the fabulous Sierra 107 Matchking
I really was suprised at how much fun I had setting these reamers up. It was a true learning experience. My meaning of this is not to get locked in on someones suggested freebore. As they can be improved on. This last freebore length is my personal favorite and it is a chamber of 1.565 1 1/2 degree leade angle and a .140" freebore.
The first series of pictures were with a 1.570" chamber a 1 1/2 degree leade angle and a .170" freebore. The .104" is dead and gone for me after all this, and anything less would be nothing more than set up for varmints. I do realise this is all personal preference, but take a look at the different bullets and how they sit in the case and now this may help a few make a much better informed decision when ordering a tool. I have had serious issues with my current reamer maker, and will be going a different route next time. I am tired of chasing a greased pig that likes to run around the barn. I hope this was a learning curve to help new guys out there and encourage any questions as we have a vast knowledge base here, Tim Claunch
If you 2 are done for a minute, we can get back to our regularly sheduled discussion. FD didn`t remember I have more than 1 dog in this so here is another example of freebore done at my expense of another reamer. It is much better suited for his use of the 107 Sierra Matchking.
First in the same order is the Berger 105 VLD
Next is the Berger 108 BT
Once again the 108 Bib
And finally the fabulous Sierra 107 Matchking
I really was suprised at how much fun I had setting these reamers up. It was a true learning experience. My meaning of this is not to get locked in on someones suggested freebore. As they can be improved on. This last freebore length is my personal favorite and it is a chamber of 1.565 1 1/2 degree leade angle and a .140" freebore.
The first series of pictures were with a 1.570" chamber a 1 1/2 degree leade angle and a .170" freebore. The .104" is dead and gone for me after all this, and anything less would be nothing more than set up for varmints. I do realise this is all personal preference, but take a look at the different bullets and how they sit in the case and now this may help a few make a much better informed decision when ordering a tool. I have had serious issues with my current reamer maker, and will be going a different route next time. I am tired of chasing a greased pig that likes to run around the barn. I hope this was a learning curve to help new guys out there and encourage any questions as we have a vast knowledge base here, Tim Claunch
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX More Mug Shots
Tim,
A great thread my friend, I have thoroughly enjoyed it,..I have been shooting the 107SMK's with .104 fb as you know and want to order another reamer, but I plan on if I can get some on his next run going with the 103 vld Spencer bullets,...Question?...how would you go about ordering a reamer for those bullets?, who would you have make it?
Wayne.
Tim,
A great thread my friend, I have thoroughly enjoyed it,..I have been shooting the 107SMK's with .104 fb as you know and want to order another reamer, but I plan on if I can get some on his next run going with the 103 vld Spencer bullets,...Question?...how would you go about ordering a reamer for those bullets?, who would you have make it?
Wayne.
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX More Mug Shots
You let the cat out of the bag too early for my guess
.170 it would have been!
I just ordered a 1.563 case with a .170 fb on 1.5 lead.
Trying to spec around the new Hornady BTHP which has about .100 longer bearing surface than the hunting vld's and should still work with the other bullets....I hope...
Dallas
You let the cat out of the bag too early for my guess
.170 it would have been!
I just ordered a 1.563 case with a .170 fb on 1.5 lead.
Trying to spec around the new Hornady BTHP which has about .100 longer bearing surface than the hunting vld's and should still work with the other bullets....I hope...
Dallas
tclaunch
Silver $$ Contributor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX More Mug Shots
Wayne, I am deeply grateful you have enjoyed this. I have some 103 Spencer bullets I can show you how they sit with the .140" the jacket on those is very similar to the 105 VLD. I have not used JGS in several years, but will be using their services again next purchase. I will send them a sample round with bullet seated to my preference for freebore. I will also let you know there has been a run of bad advise from tool a maker to use a .470" diameter at the .200" line above the base or boltface. I urge anyone to add .001" to this to help eliminate the horrible "click" at the top of extraction of the bolt handle. Incorporate a .471" @.200" .Freebore diameter can get too tight and a .2436" is my preference.
Dallas, sorry i pulled the plug too soon!!!
Wayne, I am deeply grateful you have enjoyed this. I have some 103 Spencer bullets I can show you how they sit with the .140" the jacket on those is very similar to the 105 VLD. I have not used JGS in several years, but will be using their services again next purchase. I will send them a sample round with bullet seated to my preference for freebore. I will also let you know there has been a run of bad advise from tool a maker to use a .470" diameter at the .200" line above the base or boltface. I urge anyone to add .001" to this to help eliminate the horrible "click" at the top of extraction of the bolt handle. Incorporate a .471" @.200" .Freebore diameter can get too tight and a .2436" is my preference.
Dallas, sorry i pulled the plug too soon!!!
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Re: Freebore Mug Shots 6BRX More Mug Shots
Yes I will keep in contact with you about this, I talked to Clay about two weeks ago or so via a email and he was 47,700 103's behind and told me to contact him in January, I am very excited to try them in my 6brx, they have been burning up the course in Missoula Montana where I compete, I hate buying a 1000 or more on speculation but you can't get them just anytime you want them, do you think it wise to buy at least 1k of them? I have been told he uses the J4 jackets from Walt Berger but have no proof of this, just something I read on the WWW,..thanks again Tim.
Wayne.
Tim,tclaunch said:
Yes I will keep in contact with you about this, I talked to Clay about two weeks ago or so via a email and he was 47,700 103's behind and told me to contact him in January, I am very excited to try them in my 6brx, they have been burning up the course in Missoula Montana where I compete, I hate buying a 1000 or more on speculation but you can't get them just anytime you want them, do you think it wise to buy at least 1k of them? I have been told he uses the J4 jackets from Walt Berger but have no proof of this, just something I read on the WWW,..thanks again Tim.
Wayne.
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