Francis Scott Key Bridge, Baltimore Md.

[Old Navy]

Perhaps I’m wrong on the exact process, he’s passed on now so no way to ask just how they went about it. He delivered a lot of fuel as well.

I am 80 so I don't really don't remember and am not sure who's job it was to maintain those tanks. My guess is that we pumped it over board just like bilge water and sewage.

 

[Dimner]

If this was posted before, I apologize.
My nephew sent me this and said it was the best article he'd seen yet...
Telegraph Article

Thank you very much for this

 

[jonbearman]

The pylons looked way to flimsy to me on that structure.With those monster ships coming through they should of dumped 1000's of tons of boulders to make a reef around each stantion.

 

[D Coots]

If this was posted before, I apologize.
My nephew sent me this and said it was the best article he'd seen yet...
Telegraph Article

Great article, thanks.

Evidently no female blonde pilot at the helm...

 

[jackieschmidt]

The pylons looked way to flimsy to me on that structure.With those monster ships coming through they should have dumped 1000's of tons of boulders to make a reef around each stantion.

When Hurricane Ike hit Houston, several barges on the San Jacinto River got loose and did considerable damage to the north section of the IH-10 bridge. For months traffic had to be diverted to the south span.

but at least you could get across. Imagine IH-10 being shut down for months.

Since then they are building huge bumpers that will make it just about impossible for a barge to damage the bridge.

Something really bad had to happen before action was taken

 

[DShortt]

I can’t find a picture of this particular engine, but here is a 100,000 hp version.

All look similar, I think the just add cylinders as they get bigger.

New 100,000-hp Marine Diesel Engine | BoatTEST

The world’s biggest engine is the Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C. It is a turbo charged two stroke diesel engine, and it

boattest.com

That's a pretty decent comparison.

 

[DShortt]

I wonder what would have happened with only one harbor pilot on board, instead of two. Is it physically possible to flip the ship upside down in 45 feet of water or stand it on end. Maybe they prevented that. What if they hadn’t received any pilot training whatsoever, were just regular people, what result, then?

I’m sorry if there’s a relative of one here, but this is almost as bad as derailing that Amtrak up there on the Hudson at 40+ mph over the rated curve’s max killing many. If it doesn’t scream incompetence, I mean, we landed on and returned from the moon, FCS.

Maybe in the 70’s when we returned from the moon, it was assumed no one would ram the tip of prow of a 145’ width ship into the stanchion, and doubling the cost of projects could be avoided. But clearly we can assume nothing anymore. We control drones at 50x this speed remote control 10k miles away in real time. We’ve got to work, all of us, that’s how we live, but things like this are pure regression.

People are doing handstands on marbles in the press to look everywhere other than the pilots, or whoever steered it. You don’t have to be an admiral to infer that it stood a chance of hitting nothing whatsoever just drifting dead. Power restarted intermittently. Somehow it actually then veered more squarely toward the pier. Then it veered less. It’s dumbfounding. And infuriating.

Due to the weight and inertia any time something of this size gets out of control for whatever reason whatever it impacts is going to sustain substantial damage and the vessel as well.

I've yet to see any drones bigger than a fighter jet. No comparison.

 

[c3d4b2]

Relax, they have Mayor Pete to manage these disasters. Look how well he fixed E. Palistine, Boeing maintenance issues, west coast supply chain problems. This could have been one of those racist bridges he wanted to get rid of.

Based on the condition of the streets in South Bend, and it's #1 ranking of crime per capita in the state....... I am afraid his track record does not provide much optimism.....

 

[davidjoe]

Due to the weight and inertia any time something of this size gets out of control for whatever reason whatever it impacts is going to sustain substantial damage and the vessel as well.

I've yet to see any drones bigger than a fighter jet. No comparison.

I was the very first here to criticize Uvalde LE response. I’m talking, - quickly and hard. There’s plenty of LE here, of course, good guys. Better assess right if taking that approach - and I absolutely try to. Then, slowly, there wasn’t a person online, in the state, or in the US that disagreed, of course. I haven’t deleted an entry yet.

Harbor pilots are in command. Protecting the harbor is basically priority one, and let’s be honest, it’s usually easy and routine. I get really frustrated when the rare occasion finally arises for which the job was created, and the specialist empowered by law may actually worsen the situation, while no one else can do anything. You can sense I’m skeptical of the propriety of their inputs and that’s correct. This is another reason Uvalde comes to mind.

Now, I am NOT saying this happened, but it has not escaped my cynical mind, which I’m working on, that in the last say 10 years, more people for whatever reason, have some part of their psyche that, even if unintentionally and unconsciously, attempts to validate how major a problem is that they have identified and brought forth. In other words, their first inclination, tendency and actions perpetuate a problem for everyone to see and experience - and it ends up making a situation worse. And I think a lot of us will pause and say, yes, this phenomenon is real, increasing, and part of the “social-personality” that social media may have engendered. Again not saying I saw this here, but I have a real problem with blanket it’s “out of control” statements, when objects don’t behave exactly the way I’d expect physics would dictate.

 

[D Coots]

When is the last time you piloted something this size?

 

[DShortt]

I was the very first here to criticize Uvalde LE response. I’m talking, - quickly and hard. There’s plenty of LE here, of course, good guys. Better assess right if taking that approach - and I absolutely try to. Then, slowly, there wasn’t a person online, in the state, or in the US that disagreed, of course. I haven’t deleted an entry yet.

Harbor pilots are in command. Protecting the harbor is basically priority one, and let’s be honest, it’s usually easy and routine. I get really frustrated when the rare occasion finally arises for which the job was created, and the specialist empowered by law may actually worsen the situation, while no one else can do anything. You can sense I’m skeptical of the propriety of their inputs and that’s correct. This is another reason Uvalde comes to mind.

Now, I am NOT saying this happened, but it has not escaped my cynical mind, which I’m working on, that in the last say 10 years, more people for whatever reason, have some part of their psyche that, even if unintentionally and unconsciously, attempts to validate how major a problem is that they have identified and brought forth. In other words, their first inclination, tendency and actions perpetuate a problem for everyone to see and experience - and it ends up making a situation worse. And I think a lot of us will pause and say, yes, this phenomenon is real, increasing, and part of the “social-personality” that social media may have engendered. Again not saying I saw this here, but I have a real problem with blanket it’s “out of control” statements, when objects don’t behave exactly the way I’d expect physics would dictate.

Ok

I was the very first here to criticize Uvalde LE response. I’m talking, - quickly and hard. There’s plenty of LE here, of course, good guys. Better assess right if taking that approach - and I absolutely try to. Then, slowly, there wasn’t a person online, in the state, or in the US that disagreed, of course. I haven’t deleted an entry yet.

Harbor pilots are in command. Protecting the harbor is basically priority one, and let’s be honest, it’s usually easy and routine. I get really frustrated when the rare occasion finally arises for which the job was created, and the specialist empowered by law may actually worsen the situation, while no one else can do anything. You can sense I’m skeptical of the propriety of their inputs and that’s correct. This is another reason Uvalde comes to mind.

Now, I am NOT saying this happened, but it has not escaped my cynical mind, which I’m working on, that in the last say 10 years, more people for whatever reason, have some part of their psyche that, even if unintentionally and unconsciously, attempts to validate how major a problem is that they have identified and brought forth. In other words, their first inclination, tendency and actions perpetuate a problem for everyone to see and experience - and it ends up making a situation worse. And I think a lot of us will pause and say, yes, this phenomenon is real, increasing, and part of the “social-personality” that social media may have engendered. Again not saying I saw this here, but I have a real problem with blanket it’s “out of control” statements, when objects don’t behave exactly the way I’d expect physics would dictate.

What exactly would you expect ANYONE to do with a time frame of under 5 minutes from the first indication of a problem to collision and a vessel weighing approximately 150,000 tons traveling at 8 knots or roughly 10 MPH and in the immediate vicinity of a structural object without any collision protection to speak of and no brakes?

Apparently you should have been piloting the vessel since it's so simple.

How about you solve cancer and homelessness tomorrow.

 

[D Coots]

^^^^^^^^^

3--2---1

 

[davidjoe]

Ok

What exactly would you expect ANYONE to do with a time frame of under 5 minutes from the first indication of a problem to collision and a vessel weighing approximately 150,000 tons traveling at 8 knots or roughly 10 MPH and in the immediate vicinity of a structural object without any collision protection to speak of and no brakes?

Apparently you should have been piloting the vessel since it's so simple.

How about you solve cancer and homelessness tomorrow.

I’ll suggest to you this, I couldn’t have done a WORSE job. You couldn’t have, either.

 

[Dave M.]

I wonder what would have happened with only one harbor pilot on board, instead of two. Is it physically possible to flip the ship upside down in 45 feet of water or stand it on end. Maybe they prevented that. What if they hadn’t received any pilot training whatsoever, were just regular people, what result, then?

I’m sorry if there’s a relative of one here, but this is almost as bad as derailing that Amtrak up there on the Hudson at 40+ mph over the rated curve’s max killing many. If it doesn’t scream incompetence, I mean, we landed on and returned from the moon, FCS.

Maybe in the 70’s when we returned from the moon, it was assumed no one would ram the tip of prow of a 145’ width ship into the stanchion, and doubling the cost of projects could be avoided. But clearly we can assume nothing anymore. We control drones at 50x this speed remote control 10k miles away in real time. We’ve got to work, all of us, that’s how we live, but things like this are pure regression.

People are doing handstands on marbles in the press to look everywhere other than the pilots, or whoever steered it. You don’t have to be an admiral to infer that it stood a chance of hitting nothing whatsoever just drifting dead. Power restarted intermittently. Somehow it actually then veered more squarely toward the pier. Then it veered less. It’s dumbfounding. And infuriating.

David, I love you brother, but respectfully disagree. When a ship loses all power you could have 50 pilots on board and they’d all be nothing but a floating passenger.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Since this tragedy, I have been reading quite a few articles on some of the basics of bridge design and protection.

Here is one that is short and to the point. It also has a couple of informative videos.

Why the Baltimore bridge stood little chance against a fully loaded cargo ship

Although bridges are designed to withstand impacts from ships, experts said, some events go beyond what a structure can handle.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Dave M.]

When Hurricane Ike hit Houston, several barges on the San Jacinto River got loose and did considerable damage to the north section of the IH-10 bridge. For months traffic had to be diverted to the south span.

but at least you could get across. Imagine IH-10 being shut down for months.

Since then they are building huge bumpers that will make it just about impossible for a barge to damage the bridge.

Something really bad had to happen before action was taken

lol. The largest barges in the country are under 400 feet and max out under 10,000 tons. The Dali is 985ft and has a deadweight of 116,000 tons. Comparing the largest of barges to the Dali hitting bridge supports is not even a close comparison at all.
Dave

 

[DShortt]

I’ll suggest to you this, I couldn’t have done a WORSE job. You couldn’t have, either.

Huh. You should be in charge of the world then.

Sheesh.

Apparently you've never experienced a loss of vehicle control on ice. Same situation, just slowed down.

Instead of questioning the skill of the harbor pilots the quick reaction of those who stopped bridge traffic should be applauded. That was outstanding.

 

[jackieschmidt]

lol. The largest barges in the country are under 400 feet and max out under 10,000 tons. The Dali is 985ft and has a deadweight of 116,000 tons. Comparing the largest of barges to the Dali hitting bridge supports is not even a close comparison at all.
Dave

Dave, I wasn’t comparing them. And the IH-10 bridges on the San Jacinto River are quite small compared to the key bridge. They are also a welded plate structure supported on concrete pillars.

But due to the extremely high water due to flooding, the barges had no clearance to get under the bridges. This damaged sections from the under structure, compromising the bridges load carrying capacity.
This video was taken a few days after the water started reseeding. Since this, the State is building huge Dolphins to offer a little more protection.

The San Jacinto River Authority has also instituted a new series of guidelines on the Fleeting of barges up stream from the bridges.

In case readers do not know what Fleeting is, it is best described as a parking lot for barges when not in use.

Google Search

 

[davidjoe]

David, I love brother, but respectfully disagree. When a ship loses all power you could have 50 pilots on board and they’d all be nothing but a floating passenger.

There’s a lot of truth in that. A lot. Questions I have is did they for some reason rudder hard right and get locked there. Why. One article suggests they did exactly that. And what did they do when the power was briefly restored. Was there a delay in attempting restart. Obviously, why did it power down. But then, how quickly did they restart. What shut it down next time.

I credit them for alerting the bridge. I credit them for one anchor dropped, possibly two. I credit them if they attempted hard back, if they thought they could stop it, but I’d like to know if it was a full powered effort and if it was debated first. Truth is the ship slowed considerably and it’s frustrating because it almost, - almost either rotated out of alignment with the stanchion, and/or slowed sufficiently.

It seems a given but I’d like to hear someone report that the power down was absolutely and unequivocally never a caused, commanded, mistaken or accidental, input for any reason. Too close to the bridge obviously. I have been on many, too many huge ships that stopped and restarted primary engines. Sometimes with an announcement and sometimes not. I don’t think it is extremely unusual to do so at sea.

 

[Bill Clifton]

Twice as big or bigger as this one, for propulsion. This size or a little bigger for auxiliary generator. That’s a 4’ ladder. Vee 20, a little more than 6000 HP.

View attachment 1541138
View attachment 1541139

More like 10 times bigger. I think those cargo ships have something like 50,000hp