Howdy everyone im needin a lilttle help here i bought a nearly new savage 12 22-250a little over a week ago sense then i've shoot 250 rounds through it (all reloads) using nosler BT's, Blitzkings and V-max all 50gr. and mainly varget, and H380 powder my last 5 shot group i put 4 shots in a group that scored .432 the last shot was 1 inch off the rest of the group. barrel is floated all the way back and theres about half a dozen other ok groups from .5 to .75 that have one or two flyers is there something im doing wrong here. thanks
flyers
- Thread starter RELOADER300
- Start date
First off, is the action bedded to the stock? If not, have it bedded and see how it runs. If it is, then there are a few areas to check over.
What was the round count on the rifle? If you are unsure of the round count prior to purchasing it, you should have it bore-scoped by a smith to see how the barrel looks. You can tell a lot from scoping a barrel, and the smith can tell you in just a few minutes if it needs to be replaced. The 22-250 is a bit hard on barrels, and once they start to go, they will throw fliers. A little farther, and they just stop grouping. Do this before anything else if you are unsure of the round count or if it has over 1500 rounds through it. It will probably last to 2500-3000 if it has a 1-12 twist, unless it has been through many extended strings of fire. If the previous owner was a varmint hunter, I would have it scoped. Some varmint hunters will keep shooting even after the barrel is excessively hot, which can ruin a barrel in short order.
You need to make sure you are holding the rifle exactly the same from shot to shot. If it changes, your POI will change as well.
Have a good look at the crown on the barrel. If it has even a slight ding or imperfection, it needs to be re-cut. Even a small defect in the crown will cause fliers.
Post the specs of your loads, ie: how far into/off the lands, neck tension, sizing method, etc. It may help spot an issue or someone may be able to make a helpful suggestion.
What are you using for rests, bipod or pedestal and are you using a rear bag?
There are just too many causes of fliers to list. I would go over what has been listed, especially round count and a possible scoping, checking the crown, and bedding. They are the easiest culprits to spot. Most others take a bit more to figure out.
Good luck, i hope it shoots well soon.
Kenny
What was the round count on the rifle? If you are unsure of the round count prior to purchasing it, you should have it bore-scoped by a smith to see how the barrel looks. You can tell a lot from scoping a barrel, and the smith can tell you in just a few minutes if it needs to be replaced. The 22-250 is a bit hard on barrels, and once they start to go, they will throw fliers. A little farther, and they just stop grouping. Do this before anything else if you are unsure of the round count or if it has over 1500 rounds through it. It will probably last to 2500-3000 if it has a 1-12 twist, unless it has been through many extended strings of fire. If the previous owner was a varmint hunter, I would have it scoped. Some varmint hunters will keep shooting even after the barrel is excessively hot, which can ruin a barrel in short order.
You need to make sure you are holding the rifle exactly the same from shot to shot. If it changes, your POI will change as well.
Have a good look at the crown on the barrel. If it has even a slight ding or imperfection, it needs to be re-cut. Even a small defect in the crown will cause fliers.
Post the specs of your loads, ie: how far into/off the lands, neck tension, sizing method, etc. It may help spot an issue or someone may be able to make a helpful suggestion.
What are you using for rests, bipod or pedestal and are you using a rear bag?
There are just too many causes of fliers to list. I would go over what has been listed, especially round count and a possible scoping, checking the crown, and bedding. They are the easiest culprits to spot. Most others take a bit more to figure out.
Good luck, i hope it shoots well soon.
Kenny
thanks for the suggestions fellers i'm going to try a few things
holstil
Silver $$ Contributor
Pull a couple of your seated bullets to see if you get any snags on your jackets. The chamfer job is an important one. This blew me away when I found a few of mine doing it. You can check this by running a cotton swab in and out, if you get any hangers, chamfer again. Make sure you don't stop turning the tool before you come away with it. You will get fish hooks if you do. This will give you all kinds of great groups with flyers. Those little magget fliers, I hate those freagin.........!
You could also shoot a box of factory ammo to see if it does it then, even if it doesn't group great, your just lookin for the wild freakin...........!. Did I mention I hate fliers? If so, probably something else.
Jim
You could also shoot a box of factory ammo to see if it does it then, even if it doesn't group great, your just lookin for the wild freakin...........!. Did I mention I hate fliers? If so, probably something else.
Jim
Interesting thread.
Here is another scenario I have experienced: Yesterday I was shooting a new load in my Savage 12 LRPV 1:7 twist 223 at 200 yards. The load was a 69 gr Sierra MK seated .020" off with 25 gr. of H4895 in a Lapua case with Wolf SRM primer. I was consistently getting the first shot printing 1" high and 1" right followed by a tight group at the POA. It would do this over and over if I let the gun sit for about 3 mintues between groups - always the first shot followed by a very nice group. All groups were fired at 200 yards off a joystick front rest and a Protecktor rear bag filled with heavy sand using a T-24 scope that has proven to be good.
The gun is in a Savage BR stock and has been bedded and the action scews torqued to 35 inch pounds for the front two screws and 15 inch pounds in the rear actlon screw.
??????????
Here is another scenario I have experienced: Yesterday I was shooting a new load in my Savage 12 LRPV 1:7 twist 223 at 200 yards. The load was a 69 gr Sierra MK seated .020" off with 25 gr. of H4895 in a Lapua case with Wolf SRM primer. I was consistently getting the first shot printing 1" high and 1" right followed by a tight group at the POA. It would do this over and over if I let the gun sit for about 3 mintues between groups - always the first shot followed by a very nice group. All groups were fired at 200 yards off a joystick front rest and a Protecktor rear bag filled with heavy sand using a T-24 scope that has proven to be good.
The gun is in a Savage BR stock and has been bedded and the action scews torqued to 35 inch pounds for the front two screws and 15 inch pounds in the rear actlon screw.
??????????
holstil
Silver $$ Contributor
Curious, is the first thing you do when you shoot the first shot, raise the rest then relax it?
Do you have same type issues with other guns?
I was just thinking maybe you have a little slop/lash in your rest and it takes the first shot to settle the rest.
That is a puzzling one.
Jim
Do you have same type issues with other guns?
I was just thinking maybe you have a little slop/lash in your rest and it takes the first shot to settle the rest.
That is a puzzling one.
Jim
Travelor,
I agree with holstil, that sounds like a bag/rest issue, but I'd suspect it's the rear bag. Sounds like the first shot is settling the butt into the bag, then it's shooting fine from there. You can test that hypothesis easily - just leave the gun on the rear bag and front reat after you shoot a group, wiat for cooling , then shoot another group. You can mitigate this by really pounding the but into the rear bag to get it settled before shooting your first round....
Reloader300, my 22-250 Savage barrel, back when I was shooting it alot, was pretty sensitive to carbon accumulation. It didn't copper up too badly, but it did accumulate carbon in the throat and when it did, the groups would spread and it started throwing flyers. I had to use GM TEC to get the carbon out. Mine also seemed to like an occasional (like every 150 round) light stroking with JB to keep it shooting right. And it liked Bergers over anything else.
Elkbane
I agree with holstil, that sounds like a bag/rest issue, but I'd suspect it's the rear bag. Sounds like the first shot is settling the butt into the bag, then it's shooting fine from there. You can test that hypothesis easily - just leave the gun on the rear bag and front reat after you shoot a group, wiat for cooling , then shoot another group. You can mitigate this by really pounding the but into the rear bag to get it settled before shooting your first round....
Reloader300, my 22-250 Savage barrel, back when I was shooting it alot, was pretty sensitive to carbon accumulation. It didn't copper up too badly, but it did accumulate carbon in the throat and when it did, the groups would spread and it started throwing flyers. I had to use GM TEC to get the carbon out. Mine also seemed to like an occasional (like every 150 round) light stroking with JB to keep it shooting right. And it liked Bergers over anything else.
Elkbane
holstil, thanks for the replies. First, this does not happen with other guns, BUT I have found that for whatever reason, I have to keep lowering the front rest from, shot to shot - as in the rear bag IS settling. This is strange to me as it happens no matter what rear bag I use. I have made a small piece of wood that is shaped like my buttstock and have used it to try to settle the rear bag with some success as far as having to continually adjust the front rest.
I am about to start questioning the front rest - Shade Tree joystick. I have emailed Butch and he feels the rear bag is settling, but ...................
Elkbane, this problem of the first shot high and right was noted without removing the gun from the rests between groups. I sould shoot a 3-shot group and wait 5 minutes and shoot another with the same first shot high and right. I did this 4 times wiht the same results.
I am about to start questioning the front rest - Shade Tree joystick. I have emailed Butch and he feels the rear bag is settling, but ...................
Elkbane, this problem of the first shot high and right was noted without removing the gun from the rests between groups. I sould shoot a 3-shot group and wait 5 minutes and shoot another with the same first shot high and right. I did this 4 times wiht the same results.
No this is the only rifle i have that does it i have a 308 on a custom remington action that shoots in the .3's all day long never had a flyer with it. i cleaned the barrel last night and got alot of carbon out this morning it shot a .75 at best(4 shots) out of 3 groups the one flyer(5th shot) was only about a half inch out from the rest of the group i think im going to try some magnum primers next.
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