Flyer issue

[NigelM]

Having a bit of trouble with a 280AI which I would appreciate some help with.

It's a new barrel on an old action, so I'm breaking the barrel in whilst cooking up recipes, so that might be something to do with my problem.

Brass is Nosler and yes we did use a SAAMI reamer for the chamber, so no issues on headspace.

I am using 2 powders, 59 grains of R19 and 60 grains of R22 under 162 Amax's. Primers are 210's. Powders and primers are 5 or 6 years old but they have been stored in a dark dry cupboard in the house so I very much doubt that's an issue.

R19 is pushing at an average of 3004 fps and the R22 at 3030.

Neck tension is 2 thou, brass is concentric, cases are all trimmed to the same length.

I am shooting on a 50 yard range (all I have safe space for at home) that is well protected from any wind, which hasn't been an issue. Bipod on the front, sand bag at the back.

I have been reloading for 10 years and am used to putting loads together that shoot consistently under .5 MOA, so I don't think this is an experience issue. My 6mm47 Lapua runs an ES of 11 and shoots 1/4 inch.

In a 5 round group I am getting 4 grouping at about 1/4 inch with both powders. Both have the same zero. Problem is I always seem to get a flyer which consistently goes 1" top right. I am also getting an ES of 50 to 60 with both powders but the flyer is never to highest or lowest speed bullet.

I'm stumped at this one. Any idea what I should be looking for?

Nigel

 

[M-61]

Might have missed it but, is it always the LAST shot of a 5 shot group that takes off?

 

[NigelM]

No, usually one in the middle somewhere. On the two 4 shot groups earlier it was #2 on the first batch and #3 on the second.

Just doing a bit of homework elsewhere, primers are 210, not 210M. Is this likely to make much of a difference to ES and SD? Should I be looking at using a GM215M primer?

Nigel

 

[expiper]

try it on sand bags,,,a bi-pod can cause unexplained vertical,,,Roger

 

[Catfish]

Have you marked your cases to see if it is the same case? Are the touch holes in the brass all the same size and centered? ES is not bad enough that it should cause a problem at the range your shooting. In fact I had a friend that worked up a load for a 243 and it was a real killer on groundhogs, it was his go to load for his go to gun. Then he got a crono and found that his SD was 49. After finding that out he still killed a lot of groundhogs at some pretty good ranges and spent a lot of time trying to figure how how it could shoot like that.

 

[NigelM]

I'm at the start of a process to work up the rifle to shoot 1000yds, so ES is going to be pretty critical. No it's not the same case each time, different cases used for every round so far.

My next play is to swap primers. I think I want to take that out of the equation next so will try loading CCI BR2's and see what happens.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[OIF/OEF]

I just had an issue somewhat like you are describing I went from a Sinclair bipod to a front rest and cured it

 

[M-61]

I just had an issue somewhat like you are describing I went from a Sinclair bipod to a front rest and cured it

I've had a similar experience years ago.
Sometimes when things like this happen (that's a 2" flyer at 100) and I'm at a loss, I'll ask a buddy of mine to squeeze off a group (we shoot very similar), and see what he gets. If it's not happening to him then I know I'm the problem.

 

[dbramley]

Check the ignition system. Firing pin strength, firing pin fall, etc. I went through an entire barrel and re-bedded a rifle trying to solve the occasional 9 at 6 o'clock I would shoot. Finally found out firing pin fall was .030 short of optimal. For my specific case this helped a lot. Did you uniform primer pockets?

 

[searcher]

I have run into this a number of times. In most experiences, a change in bullets or powder if this tendency occurs throughout the accuracy node with what you are using will usually fix it. I have a 7mm Mag that did the same thing with the Amax's. Being "sure" I could get them to shoot, I bought a lot for my new barrel. I ended up selling them to another fellow on this site. Turns out, that Krieger barrel would shoot other bullets much more consistently. Double check you brass trim length and if you are not shy, trim an additional /005" or so off the length of a sampling batch. If one of your cases (the one in five) is .001" longer than the others, it may be making contact at the forward end of the chamber, whereas the other four are not. If your chamber is cut just a tad shorter than you think it is, this can occur when you think you are well off the end of the chamber but in reality almost on it. Had this happen with a new 30BR barrel and drove me wild. Finally trimmed a sample of cases .008" shorter than trim length and problem instantly disappeared. All after trying out various powders, bullets, primers, checking bedding, swapping scopes, etc. Also, assuming your cases are fire-formed to your chamber and you are not excessively pushing your shoulders back, potentially creating an inconsistent ignition effect due to irregular firing pin contact with the primers. Another possibility is having contaminants in your cases as a result of case prep. Turning necks, etc., without thorough cleaning of cases BEFORE tumbling can leave a bit of tumbling media inside your cases, thus affecting the fill volume of your powder. After charging my cases, I always run a flashlight over every single load to see if there is ANY discernible difference in powder levels between the cases. A small clump of whatever WILL affect your grouping. As you mentioned about the Magnum primers - I'd probably opt to not use them with the powders and caliber you are using.

 

[BoydAllen]

A couple of things...First of all headspace is set by the fellow that chambers the barrel. Having a SAAMI spec reamer is not a guarantee of correct headspace.
Secondly, have you checked the rifle's bedding with a dial indicator? If the action has a Remington style recoil lug, you need to at least rebed the lug, unless it was pinned when the bedding was done the first time.
Third, try another scope, and while you are at it, check the scope base screws to see if any are bottoming. Lastly, try a real soft rear bag. I have seen times where a hard bag caused fliers. This can also happen when the rifle slides back to the point where sling studs contact the bag.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Nigel

What action are you using?

Regards

JCS

 

[NigelM]

JCS,

It's a remmy 700 action. I was 6mm06AI but have had it rebarreled to 280AI. I have put a lot of rounds through action over the years, it was like shooting a laser, very consistent. No stock or bedding change, just the barrel.

Brass is new unfired from Nosler. I have been through the cases and they all measure very consistently.

NIgel