First ladder test…… help

[DLT]

Since the primers are showing no pressure and no others pressure indicators, I would go a little higher at .2 increments, maybe 3 steps and don't shoot when the wind is not cooperating, cause that's just wasting primers,bullets, powder and barrel life.

You do have about 100+ rounds thru the barrel?

Frank

So you don’t see any signs either ? I don’t even see a trace of ejector stamp. I have 138 total rounds through the barrel.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Just me but, no flags, 300 yards, wide dispersion, 18 rounds wasted. Sitting here shaking my head. Maybe this should be renamed " Todays Theory Forum".

 

[Jager]

God's favorite angel couldn't shoot good groups from a hasty setup, in switchy wind, at distance. And not having flags just makes everything a guess. You can make DIY flags for 5 or 6 bucks that will do most of what you need.

I'm not seeing anything in your results. Sometimes it works out that way.

Not seeing pressure, either.

Edit: @JEFFPPC said it better and more succinctly than me!

 

[DLT]

Just me but, no flags, 300 yards, wide dispersion, 18 rounds wasted. Sitting here shaking my head. Maybe this should be renamed " Today' Theory Forum".

Wasn’t wasted. I learned I don’t have pressure and I also learned what not to do. Everyone has helped on this thread if you realize it or not.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Zero. It was on a hill side. It was a quick fast make shift range. Shooting across a valley into a clear cut. I’m by far no expert but if I would have had flags out there would have been just as many flags going one way as going the other at the same time

What does that tell you? You may not like the answer you get about needing flags but it's the best one you've gotten and it's coming from some experienced shooters, just being honest with you. You could've learned if you were too hot or not in a couple of shots so yes, the rest were wasted. The sooner you start using some kind of flags, the sooner you'll start shooting better. Not trying to be rude, just honest.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Wasn’t wasted. I learned I don’t have pressure and I also learned what not to do. Everyone has helped on this thread if you realize it or not.

If you feel you learning something I guess that is a plus. Good luck. I hope if nothing else you learned you need to be shooting over flags , but maybe that does not fit into you process. Have a good time.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Another re-coloring scheme here. Regardless of how it is done (i.e. arrows, circles, lines, etc.), a color scheme helps one readily identify the vertical dispersion associated with a given charge weight, which is the whole point of a ladder test. You're looking for a charge weight window that provides minimal vertical spread. To my eyes, 22.8 through 23.2 is your window. You could re-test in 0.1 gr increments within that window, or just go with 23.0 gr, which is in approximately the middle of the window.

 

[DLT]

What does that tell you? You may not like the answer you get about needing flags but it's the best one you've gotten and it's coming from some experienced shooters, just being honest with you. You could've learned if you were too hot or not in a couple of shots so yes, the rest were wasted. The sooner you start using some kind of flags, the sooner you'll start shooting better. Not trying to be rude, just honest.

I’m not saying I didn’t need them. I’m sure they are a tremendous help. How could I have learned if they was too hot in a couple of shots ? I have shot some hot rounds before and knew it

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I’m not saying I didn’t need them. I’m sure they are a tremendous help. How could I have learned if they was too hot in a couple of shots ? I have shot some hot rounds before and knew it

Typical pressure signs, like hard bolt lift, clickers, ejector swipe and flattened primers. Not necessarily in that order. Cratering is usually not a pressure sign without some other indicators along with it. It's more likely poor firing pin fit in the fp hole, judging by your cases. None look hot to me, in your gun and in the cooler temps of this time of year.

 

[DLT]

Typical pressure signs, like hard bolt lift, clickers, ejector swipe and flattened primers. Not necessarily in that order. Cratering is usually not a pressure sign without some other indicators along with it. It's more likely poor firing pin fit in the fp hole, judging by your cases. None look hot to me, in your gun and in the cooler temps of this time of year.

Correct. I wondered if you had a new way I hadn’t heard of before. Thanks

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Correct. I wondered if you had a new way I hadn’t heard of before. Thanks

You can check for growth in the extractor groove too but you simply show no indication that would make me look any further on the cases, assuming easy bolt lift. Looks great imo, mild even. Harder primers like ccis show pressure a little later but also might help or cure the catering but likely needs fp hole bushed and pin turned down for better fitment. Harder primers just camouflage the issue more. I didn't see what primer you're using but you may have mentioned it. Temp can make a pretty big difference as we warm up later

 

[acloco]

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

www.alliantpowder.com

 

[Gargoyle]

Typical pressure signs, like hard bolt lift, clickers,

Don't apply to Savage actions. Mine do that with no rounds in the gun!

 

[Doom]

Another re-coloring scheme here. Regardless of how it is done (i.e. arrows, circles, lines, etc.), a color scheme helps one readily identify the vertical dispersion associated with a given charge weight, which is the whole point of a ladder test. You're looking for a charge weight window that provides minimal vertical spread. To my eyes, 22.8 through 23.2 is your window. You could re-test in 0.1 gr increments within that window, or just go with 23.0 gr, which is in approximately the middle of the window.

View attachment 1396423

It's hard with 223 to get a node that's very wide. I don't use ladder's but I do use OCW and if I view this target from that standpoint my pick would be 22.8 to 23. So I have to agree with Ned here. You might want to try that approach, especially if you have to deal with wind.

 

[Doom]

I show 22.4gr as Sierra's max, Ver 6. The brass looks fine. your cratering seems consistent for the most part. It's firing pin clearance.

 

[Gargoyle]

For the most part I don’t think they are. Nor did I notice a hard bolt lift. It’s a savage model 12. Alliant claims 23.2gr as their max. Sierra is 21.6gr I don’t understand why their data is low. I messed up the other day at 100yds when it was 40 degrees outside and started with 24.0 grains but didn’t see anything hateful. So I went on up to 24.0 for the ladder just fired the rounds I thought could be hot which was from 23.6 to 24.0 above the group.
They go in order from left to right first row is sighters. Each column is a .2 increase

Those look beautiful. My primers are never that rounded!

 

[DLT]

I show 22.4gr as Sierra's max, Ver 6. The brass looks fine. your cratering seems consistent for the most part. It's firing pin clearance.

That’s strange my 6th edition has it at 21.6 for the 65-69gr. Apparently that’s wayyyyyy low in my rifle for this temp.

 

[DLT]

You can check for growth in the extractor groove too but you simply show no indication that would make me look any further on the cases, assuming easy bolt lift. Looks great imo, mild even. Harder primers like ccis show pressure a little later but also might help or cure the catering but likely needs fp hole busted and pin turned down for better fitment. Harder primers just camouflage the issue more. I didn't see what primer you're using but you may have mentioned it. Temp can make a pretty big difference as we warm up later

Yea I knew the cci 450s i was using can handle a little more than the 400s. Pressure wise.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yea I knew the cci 450s i was using can handle a little more than the 400s. Pressure wise.

Not gonna advocate shooting too hot but I sure don't see anything about your brass that would slow me down.

 

[DLT]

Another re-coloring scheme here. Regardless of how it is done (i.e. arrows, circles, lines, etc.), a color scheme helps one readily identify the vertical dispersion associated with a given charge weight, which is the whole point of a ladder test. You're looking for a charge weight window that provides minimal vertical spread. To my eyes, 22.8 through 23.2 is your window. You could re-test in 0.1 gr increments within that window, or just go with 23.0 gr, which is in approximately the middle of the window.

View attachment 1396423

Did you do that on an iPhone ?