First build question - Remington Truing

[Joey_Denis]

i am looking to start my first semi custom build. I'm looking to do a 22br on a Remington action that I have. My first deer rifle was a Remington 700 in .243 passed down from my father. It is an older model. Probably 60's-70's. It just sits in the safe now. My thought is to have the action trued, barrel, trigger...etc My question is: are these older actions just as good (or better) than the newly manufactured actions by Remington? I have other (newer) 700s and a model 7 and the actions just feel so much sloppier - like the tolerances are not as tight on the newer ones as it feels on the .243. Just want to know from those who have done it if it is worth truing the older action or if I would be better served tearing apart one of the newer ones. Any feedback is helpful!

 

[BoydAllen]

Your older action can be trued up just fine. Just be sure to have it done right by someone that has a lot of benchrest grade rifle building experience, and experience single pointing threads and sleeving bolts. I have seen older actions that running a .010 over piloted tap into would not have cleaned up. This is not a job for a run of the mill gunsmith.

 

[Ggmac]

Be warned , it will be more expensive than buying a custom action . When you factor in the resale . Good gunsmiths that specialize in 700 truing are not cheap , if you find someone , check him out , ask for references , make sure he has some used older tools , a FFL , an occupational license etc.

 

[Riesel]

What do you intend to do with this new semi custom build, a varmint rifle?

 

[boltman13]

Are you sure you want a 22BR? It will require necking down brass and all that involves. Think about a 6BR Norma, good brass right off the bat. Truing a Rem 700 action as others have stated is highly dependent on the skill of the gunsmith, but if done right can give excellent results. Since you already have the action, that may be the best way to go, if you can get it to the right gunsmith. Best of luck.

 

[Cold Bore]

Be warned , it will be more expensive than buying a custom action . When you factor in the resale ..

Not sure I agree here.

If I true up a Rem M700, sure, I won't get it all back when it comes time to sell, but I'll still get at least what a factory stock action is worth.

Even if I give up the total cost of truing it when I sell, I still can't buy a custom action for the cost of a truing job.

 

[Shynloco]

Joey,
If I might ask, what is your purpose in this build? Personally, I'd start anew and not alter a rifle that was handed down from your father. If your purpose is for competition, I'd have concerns over the barrel (how many rounds down the tube), the barrel twist (does it match the caliber and bullet(s) I intend to shoot), age and quality of the barrel (bore scoping would tell you more about the worth of using it); the trigger (is it adjustable to whatever you feel comfortable with for your purpose-i.e.Hunting, Target/Benchrest shooting or both). As stated by others, truing by a reputable Gunsmith is essential. And an examination of the action by that Gunsmith would also be valuable in determining if it is worth truing or you should start with a newer version/model of the Rem 700 action. Not suggesting you abandon what you have. Just trying to suggest areas that I would have concerns over before proceeding. Of course if money is a concern, that would change the game considerably.

Personally, I've never have thought about or been concerned about the resale value of any rifle I've had built. I'm not "rich" in the slightest. But when I seek precision, I expect results to meet that standard and not something in between. But that's me.
Good luck!

Alex

 

[ttfreestyle]

Be warned , it will be more expensive than buying a custom action . When you factor in the resale . Good gunsmiths that specialize in 700 truing are not cheap , if you find someone , check him out , ask for references , make sure he has some used older tools , a FFL , an occupational license etc.

I did the trued rem thing and it shoots great but looking back I will build a custom every time from now on. I have picked up a couple of nice used customs cheaper than my rem build cost me. Just my two cents.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The new actions have timing issues which are easily fixed but seem pretty true. The older actions can be very good or way out. Its very easy to make one worse. Make sure you use someone experienced in that area. Shiny dont mean true

 

[6MMsteve]

You can pick up an action right here, like I wished I should have done.

 

[Joey_Denis]

Thanks for all of the great feedback, cannot believe what a great resource this site is. The gun will be used primarily for varmint. Specifically gophers in Montana for my long range work. My AR is being barreled with 20 practical as we speak for the closer work (inside 300yd), literally just sent it out! Want to go fast twist that I can shoot heavier bullets with the BR. Any suggestion on twist rate?
Has any one had an action trued by Hart Barrels? From a cost perspective they seem very competitive. And also convenient as they will cut, chamber, and mount the barrel too. Their site shows new barrel, cut and chambered to spec, and action truing for $700.00. Seems low cost compared to some others. am I missing something here? Would you trust them to do one of your actions? As for the caliber choice...I want the 22 on this platform for the gophers. The reson I did not choose the 6br is..well...that's the next build! That one will be on a custom action with intentions of competition. Being that Im not competing with the 22 I figured I could save a few putting this on the rem action. And loading is my relax time so case prep is not an issue. Plus it gets that gun back in the field where now it's been in the safe for ten years. As an aside. What are your thoughts on a chassis system rather than a traditional stock for this kind of set up and intentions for the gun?

 

[HTSmith]

I've not had any work done by Hart, but I can vouch for their barrels. Though they sure don't seem to be "in style" with the long range community these days, I have two that shoot exceptionally well and clean up very easily. Of course Mr. Mike Bryant's work probably had a lot to do with that also. That does look to be a good price but I think I would lean toward a reputable accuracy 'smith.

 

[sofarfrome]

Thanks for all of the great feedback, cannot believe what a great resource this site is. The gun will be used primarily for varmint. Specifically gophers in Montana for my long range work. My AR is being barreled with 20 practical as we speak for the closer work (inside 300yd), literally just sent it out! Want to go fast twist that I can shoot heavier bullets with the BR. Any suggestion on twist rate?
Has any one had an action trued by Hart Barrels? From a cost perspective they seem very competitive. And also convenient as they will cut, chamber, and mount the barrel too. Their site shows new barrel, cut and chambered to spec, and action truing for $700.00. Seems low cost compared to some others. am I missing something here? Would you trust them to do one of your actions? As for the caliber choice...I want the 22 on this platform for the gophers. The reson I did not choose the 6br is..well...that's the next build! That one will be on a custom action with intentions of competition. Being that Im not competing with the 22 I figured I could save a few putting this on the rem action. And loading is my relax time so case prep is not an issue. Plus it gets that gun back in the field where now it's been in the safe for ten years. As an aside. What are your thoughts on a chassis system rather than a traditional stock for this kind of set up and intentions for the gun?

I have an older (1995) Remington 700 SS action that was trued by Hart Rifle barrels. It is fitted with a Hart Sendero contour barrel chambered in a tight neck (0.262") 6MM BR and bedded into the original HS precision stock, bedding block be damned. I would not shoot it in BR competition but I can say that I have shot a 0.298" agg with it ( 5-5 shot groups) at 100 yards (it was a good day). Two groups were right around 0.200" with Berger 68gr FB bullets and a case full of H4895. It was me measuring the groups so perhaps the agg is actually a little bigger. But then again, it could be a little smaller. I don't care because it will shoot minute of woodchuck out to 300 yards with these bullets and the terminal performance is nothing short of excellent. Probably better if I was better. I use Redding BR dies for now and they work great. I can only guess but if the action/barrel was set up in a nice BR stock and a Bix and Andy trigger (There is a Shilen in it now) with some different bullets it may shoot better groups. However, what it is doing now is perfectly fine with me. No need to upgrade anything. If you want BR accuracy then build a 700 action around a BR concept. They will shoot every bit as well as the most expensive custom actions. The only difference is they will not sell as well ($$$) down the road.

 

[Joey_Denis]

Thanks for the great info. Resale is not a concern for me as I tend to be a hoarded when it comes to my toys. Br around the rem700 it is. I'm going for the 22br, the six will be next on a custom action. But for my goals with the 22 I think the rem will be perfect. Going to move forward with Hart barrel and trying on this project I believe

 

[boltfluter]

Joey,
I personally would go with an 8 twist to be able to shoot the heavies. Have fun.

Regards, Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

FWIW, I'll reiterate what others have said in regard to the value of going custom vs. Remington. I did a copy and paste here of what I see stated on the Hart site and what they do for the $700. Here it is..

Installing barrel on customer's action. Includes price of barrel, squaring action and lapping lugs. Please specify contour and barrel length. Prices for 1.250" OD & under.

$700.00
Standard bolt Action/Anschutz/Single Shot *Plus Shipping

Lets start by getting what is included in "squaring an action" done. Does that include re-cutting of the threads? Also, lapping lugs on a trued action is only done to verify the quality of the work, as it does little or nothing to help matters, assuming the machining is done properly...and can even make things worse by lapping a taper into the lugs. Bottom line...lapping to "true" lugs is a fallacy in the real world. I'm going to assume it includes truing of the bolt face and lugs. Just make sure everyone is on the same page here.
It does not state anything related to timing for proper sear hand off, and more importantly, primary extraction..so I would assume that this service is not included in the stated price. Depending on the handle used, timing for proper primary extraction is approximately a $100 job

Now, what's the value of you complete .243? I'd say an average 700 Remington price would be about $500.

Alright..now w have a barrel, most of which are generically in the $300 range. That leaves $400 worth of work in the Hart price...plus timing. Chambering, cutting and crowning is about $200 of that. Now we're at $200 to "square and lap" the lugs..pretty reasonable...if it includes re-cutting the threads. We still have typical Remington clearances of the bolt to raceway and trigger location.

What is the condition of the blueing on the 243? is it acceptable to very good? If not, what value would you place on the new finish that comes witha custom action? Also, most customs come with a $45 ground recoil lug included...most are also pinned.

Barrels are basically the same price..generically speaking at about $300.
So, let's look at the cost of going with a Predator action..only because it is of good quality and fair price for a 700 clone.

The action and pinned lug are $975. This includes the lug, proper primary extraction and decent sear timing with most triggers..but not perfect in some cases..and consistently closer tolerances between bolt and raceway.

Anyway...when all is said and done, the custom Predator is $975, the Remington starts out at it's resale value and then add to that any additional labor and materials. In the above example, using $500 resale, $200 "squaring", $100 for primary extraction timing and $45 for a pinned lug, you get $845 vs. $975. This gives no value to the other features and benefits of the custom. I somewhat understand when someone says they don't care much about re-sale value, but rest assured, someone, some time, in you circle of possible heirs..will. Resale is approximately double that of a "trued" 700. Just my 2 cents worth, but a good smith, for enough money, can do all the things that make the two equal. Problem is, that can actually be MORE, not less money and then there is the resale value.--Mike

 

[JRS]

The OP isn't concerned with resale value. He has the donor action in hand. Properly trued and timed, he gives up a bit of speed, bling and bragging rights. Nothing else.

 

[Joey_Denis]

FWIW, I'll reiterate what others have said in regard to the value of going custom vs. Remington. I did a copy and paste here of what I see stated on the Hart site and what they do for the $700. Here it is..

Installing barrel on customer's action. Includes price of barrel, squaring action and lapping lugs. Please specify contour and barrel length. Prices for 1.250" OD & under.

$700.00
Standard bolt Action/Anschutz/Single Shot *Plus Shipping

Lets start by getting what is included in "squaring an action" done. Does that include re-cutting of the threads? Also, lapping lugs on a trued action is only done to verify the quality of the work, as it does little or nothing to help matters, assuming the machining is done properly...and can even make things worse by lapping a taper into the lugs. Bottom line...lapping to "true" lugs is a fallacy in the real world. I'm going to assume it includes truing of the bolt face and lugs. Just make sure everyone is on the same page here.
It does not state anything related to timing for proper sear hand off, and more importantly, primary extraction..so I would assume that this service is not included in the stated price. Depending on the handle used, timing for proper primary extraction is approximately a $100 job

Now, what's the value of you complete .243? I'd say an average 700 Remington price would be about $500.

Alright..now w have a barrel, most of which are generically in the $300 range. That leaves $400 worth of work in the Hart price...plus timing. Chambering, cutting and crowning is about $200 of that. Now we're at $200 to "square and lap" the lugs..pretty reasonable...if it includes re-cutting the threads. We still have typical Remington clearances of the bolt to raceway and trigger location.

What is the condition of the blueing on the 243? is it acceptable to very good? If not, what value would you place on the new finish that comes witha custom action? Also, most customs come with a $45 ground recoil lug included...most are also pinned.

Barrels are basically the same price..generically speaking at about $300.
So, let's look at the cost of going with a Predator action..only because it is of good quality and fair price for a 700 clone.

The action and pinned lug are $975. This includes the lug, proper primary extraction and decent sear timing with most triggers..but not perfect in some cases..and consistently closer tolerances between bolt and raceway.

Anyway...when all is said and done, the custom Predator is $975, the Remington starts out at it's resale value and then add to that any additional labor and materials. In the above example, using $500 resale, $200 "squaring", $100 for primary extraction timing and $45 for a pinned lug, you get $845 vs. $975. This gives no value to the other features and benefits of the custom. I somewhat understand when someone says they don't care much about re-sale value, but rest assured, someone, some time, in you circle of possible heirs..will. Resale is approximately double that of a "trued" 700. Just my 2 cents worth, but a good smith, for enough money, can do all the things that make the two equal. Problem is, that can actually be MORE, not less money and then there is the resale value.--Mike

I may be missing something here. Please correct me if I am wrong. Going with Hart I get my barrel, chambering is included per their website, and partial truing, for 700. Finish aside, I have a friend who does cerakote so i can have the action cleaned up for nothing. So even if I have to pay for the bolt timing at 100, I'm 800 in for a barreled action versus the 975 on the predator action only. Then I have to pony up another 300-350 for a barrel then 200-300 (?) To have it threaded, chambered, and installed. That puts me at 1500-1700 neighborhood for a barreled action versus the 700-800. Am I looking at this incorrectly? As said in a follow up, I am not concerned with resale, and I have seen brand new rem 700 complete with prices tags starting with a 4...let alone a 50 year old action and well used barrel on a stock with plenty of hunting scars. Truthfully I am just trying to understand, I am new tho this side of the game! So many posts here say you can buy a custom action for what the truing will cost but by my math even with a lower cost predator I still come out way ahead using the action I have. Any additional feedback is appreciated!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I may be missing something here. Please correct me if I am wrong. Going with Hart I get my barrel, chambering is included per their website, and partial truing, for 700. Finish aside, I have a friend who does cerakote so i can have the action cleaned up for nothing. So even if I have to pay for the bolt timing at 100, I'm 800 in for a barreled action versus the 975 on the predator action only. Then I have to pony up another 300-350 for a barrel then 200-300 (?) To have it threaded, chambered, and installed. That puts me at 1500-1700 neighborhood for a barreled action versus the 700-800. Am I looking at this incorrectly? As said in a follow up, I am not concerned with resale, and I have seen brand new rem 700 complete with prices tags starting with a 4...let alone a 50 year old action and well used barrel on a stock with plenty of hunting scars. Truthfully I am just trying to understand, I am new tho this side of the game! So many posts here say you can buy a custom action for what the truing will cost but by my math even with a lower cost predator I still come out way ahead using the action I have. Any additional feedback is appreciated!

How much would you take for your 50 year old Remington?

 

[22DASHER]

Why true it at all!?

Screw on a custom pipe and shoot it...