Fireforming 250 Ackley Imp "bulletless" with just powder (no filler)

[AckleymanII]

The only cases ive ever formed for my 250ack were nickel plated (all i could get) i bought 50 cases, filled to the top with bullseye with just enough room for a tp plug to hold it in. Sized for a very slight crush fit and pointed to the sky all 50 came out just like they had been formed with a bullet. I do not use any type of filler and use this exact method for all my AI cases. Of course im not advocating you do this as you need to work up loads and do not use anybody elses. Thats why i havent posted a reply until now

WOW!!! That was one heck of a fire cracker!!!!

I just formed a bunch, 14g of Bullseye and fill the case with cream of wheat, put a tuft of paper towel in there(prefer blue) and let her fly! Case is 95%+ fully formed if not more!

 

[Coolhand]

Go down to your local Smoke Shop and buy a pkt of them white filters that the roll your own smokes guys use. Cut them in half as they make a nice plug in case necks when fire forming, saves having to wad up paper towel or bum fodder. The filters come in several sizes but none big enough for .30 Cal. About $1.20 for a couple of hundred.
I used 10 grains of local powder and no filler to fire form .220 AI brass. After a dozen or so I decided to just load a tad under MAX standard Swift load and go shoot. That way I get to hunt and fire form at the same time with no loss of accuracy.

Mike.

 

[Brians356]

I used 10 grains of local powder and no filler to fire form .220 AI brass.

What is "local powder"?
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[Coolhand]

What is "local powder"?
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ADI AP100, around the burn rate of SR 4756..at the time Bullseye & Unique were as scarce as hens teeth, BTW I have tried using a filler but as COW is not something we see here , I used polenta which worked fine.

Mike.

 

[Brians356]

ADI AP100, around the burn rate of SR 4756..at the time Bullseye & Unique were as scarce as hens teeth, BTW I have tried using a filler but as COW is not something we see here , I used polenta which worked fine.

Mike.

I actually have used corn grits rather than COW.
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[Coolhand]

Cigarette filters , left to right .30 -.22-.17.
The green ones 'SLIMS' will fit a .22 cal neck nicely, cut them in half,one pack will make 260 plugs for forming.

Mike.

 

[Brians356]

Cigarette filters , left to right .30 -.22-.17.
The green ones 'SLIMS' will fit a .22 cal neck nicely, cut them in half,one pack will make 260 plugs for forming.

Mike.

That's a great idea, didn;t know this product existed. What do you cut them in half with, a band saw?
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[Dusty Stevens]

Chainsaw

 

[dogdude]

I just did a few 6br-Dasher's, 17grns of TITEGROUP (not WAD), COW to the neck-shoulder junction, TP stuffed tite...95+%

 

[RW]

I just did a few 6br-Dasher's, 17grns of TITEGROUP (not WAD), COW to the neck-shoulder junction, TP stuffed tite...95+%

Just curious why not use some grain filler such as COW or corn meal it only takes a second to fill with a spoon and powder funnel and then tap to shake a little out and wad a piece of what ever wadding and fire! It only takes a few minutes to do 50 or so. RW

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If youve done many with filler youd not use it either. It works fine without it and theres no issues like youll eventually have with cow or other filler

 

[RW]

If youve done many with filler youd not use it either. It works fine without it and theres no issues like youll eventually have with cow or other filler

What are the issues that you have experienced? Thanks RW

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The stuff cakes up in the necks and is sometimes impossible to get out causing all kinds of pressure issues if you dont catch it. If youre lucky the powder will overflow on the first loading. If your charge is not a case filler you may stick your bolt

 

[Coolhand]

That's a great idea, didn;t know this product existed. What do you cut them in half with, a band saw?
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Brian ..... we have an implement down here, don't know what you call them over there but we call them razor blades , Gillette makes them Pretty hard to hold them in the fingers and use the Stihl Farm Boss in the other hand Dusty !

Mike.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Come on mike you gotta have a little danger in your life!

 

[Langey]

Fellas, I have formed many, many AI cases "bulletless" using the COW and wax plug method. I am asking how much more powder is required to omit the filler, just using powder. Sure, I can "waist" some cases trial and error, but someone around here once stated "increase powder charge X% if you omit the filler and it works".

I found this in my notes but I can't find the original post using Search.
From accurateshooter.com:
Fireform "bulletless" w/ about 12-15% of a normal powder charge weight of very fast powder like Bullseye and a pistol(important!) primer. I have used inert filler (corn grits), tissue wad, wax neck plug etc. but if you use 15% charge weight and simply hold the rifle vertically when you fire it (so the powder sits in the head of the case) you don't really need all that claptrap.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You dont even have to do a search its right here on this thread.

 

[Brians356]

You dont even have to do a search its right here on this thread.

Really? I don't find Langey's exact quote (or a link to it) earlier in this thread. Perhaps you could humor us and quote what you refer to?

We danced around 15% to 20%, so we had it surrounded. But I, too, once saw the same comment Langey quoted.

So thanks, Langey, that's what I was looking for!
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[Brians356]

Bullet less fireforming requires a TIGHT fitting case and a swift kick in the ass to form them correctly.

Using inert filler + plug method, in a somewhat loose AI chamber (not a proper crush fit) I found the key to avoiding stretching at the web, and getting sharp shoulders, was to wet the case slightly with a light lube like Rem Oil *, and of course have just enough Bullseye. I will use the same method when I omit the filler next time.


(* Please do not lube a case with a bullet and a normal charge of rifle powder!)
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[Dusty Stevens]

Ok. I went back and stopped looking when i seen your answer 3 times