bigedp51
Kenny474
I have been told if you play with your barrel nut you can go blind.
And again my apologies.
I have been told if you play with your barrel nut you can go blind.
And again my apologies.
bigedp51
I have gone back and removed and edited some of my postings in this thread, I can remove more or.............
It was suggested that I should completely remove this posting and it is "YOUR" forum and I'm just visiting, I will leave it to the forum members to decide.
I have just one question, do you normally grease a posting before removing it, or just use a hammer and crowbar. I know some of you think I have some half baked ideas. :
It was suggested that I should completely remove this posting and it is "YOUR" forum and I'm just visiting, I will leave it to the forum members to decide.
I have just one question, do you normally grease a posting before removing it, or just use a hammer and crowbar. I know some of you think I have some half baked ideas. :
[quote author=bigedp51
I have been told if you play with your barrel nut you can go blind.
[/quote]
Whats that say?? I can't see that small font. Whats that say???
;D ;D
And along that note: Has anyone noticed theres been no complaints of excessive pat downs in San Francisco Airports? :-X
I've heard a few reports of people buying tickets, going through security, exiting and going through security again. Whats up with that??
I have been told if you play with your barrel nut you can go blind.
[/quote]
Whats that say?? I can't see that small font. Whats that say???
;D ;D
And along that note: Has anyone noticed theres been no complaints of excessive pat downs in San Francisco Airports? :-X
I've heard a few reports of people buying tickets, going through security, exiting and going through security again. Whats up with that??
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Big Ed,
I for one don't care or have the authority to ask or tell you to remove a thread. Were just not a argumetive type forum here. It is a quite normal and widely accepted operation to lube cases to form wildcat cartridges in MODERN actions. I know of no one lubing cases in old sloppy wore out military rifles (Built that way on purpose so they would always function in filthy battlefield conditions) Now with that said if you still don't feel comfortable using that method simply state that and 99% of the time that would be the end of it and just move on to another option.I for one just simply don't want to argue I can do that with the wife : Now lets do just that, move on to another topic and have fun with the other guy's and gal's out here that love to learn and share on this forum together.
Wayne.
I for one don't care or have the authority to ask or tell you to remove a thread. Were just not a argumetive type forum here. It is a quite normal and widely accepted operation to lube cases to form wildcat cartridges in MODERN actions. I know of no one lubing cases in old sloppy wore out military rifles (Built that way on purpose so they would always function in filthy battlefield conditions) Now with that said if you still don't feel comfortable using that method simply state that and 99% of the time that would be the end of it and just move on to another option.I for one just simply don't want to argue I can do that with the wife :
Now lets do just that, move on to another topic and have fun with the other guy's and gal's out here that love to learn and share on this forum together. Wayne.
It boggles the mind. People ask for help but then denigrate everybody that tries to help 
If he resets the headspace he can shoot full power loads right off the bat with no headspacing issues. The cost of the tools wouldn't be more than the cost of the 300 bullets he would expend fireforming the brass.
ETA, I also lube cases but I reduce the charge by 10 grains.
If he resets the headspace he can shoot full power loads right off the bat with no headspacing issues. The cost of the tools wouldn't be more than the cost of the 300 bullets he would expend fireforming the brass.
ETA, I also lube cases but I reduce the charge by 10 grains.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I would suggest that the amount of headspace that the thread starter reported, with new brass, is probably typical, and therefore not a problem, as long as he pays attention to his FL die setting when he reloads the cases. As far a lubing cases for forming wildcats goes, in most cases, the chamber is enough larger than the unformed brass that pressure is less than it would be if the case fit the chamber, (when working with bullet and powder combinations that are normal to the finished case). I think that this is an important distinction. All in all, this discussion seems to have run into apples to oranges problems, and with solutions suggested that are not typically used for a first firing of a case in a chamber of the same size. Another thing to think about is that this forum may be read by anyone in the world, regardless of his level of understanding or experience. For that reason, I believe that some things are better handled on a more personal level, such as a PM or email, and that in some cases, advice should be tailored to the questioner's level of experience.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
BoydAllen said:
Boyd,
This is why I enjoy your posts so much and usually read them more than once to make sure I am getting your point for sure, but most of the time I get it the first read, hence why I like your posts so much, there written level headed and you think before you speak (write). fdshuster,Laurie, and a few others are that way but the most of them including me are not. I agree with PM's and use them a lot. Thanks for keeping us on a level playing field with your level headed, well written posts, I strive to be like you and the others like you and I have came a long ways since I started but have a ways to go yet, Thanks.
Wayne.
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
bigedp51 said:
You're making this into more than it is. Don't mess with false shoulders, don't jam the bullets, don't lube the cases. Just shoot the stuff. But that gun has a barrel nut. If the .005" bothers you, simply adjust the headspace.
FWIW - I measured headspace on a bunch of .243 cases having 3 different headstamps.....Win., PMC, and Lapua. With each headstamp there was a variation of .004 - .005" between the longest and shortest case. And between longest of one headstamp to shortest of another, the difference was .009". This was casehead to shoulder measurement.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Load 'em up and shoot them, better warm than cool, then go from there. The new brass clearance that you have mentioned is run of the mill, and virtually never gives problems, as long as attention is paid as to how dies are set for subsequent sizings. Light loads in rimless cases will shorten case "headspace" from its current value. Then, if you shoot a hot one, you will show a stretch line near the head.
Boyd
Boyd
bigedp51
bozo699 said:
Was there a reason for reopening this posting or are some of you just stroking your egos. It was a simple fire forming question and some of you guys had to write a "War and Peace" reply from rebuilding my rifle to greasing the cases.
All I wanted to know was if you people had any case stretching in the web area when fireforming your cases with approximatly .006 head clearance.
The stupidity was in some of your answers and not the question. Do any of you even check your cases after fireforming for thinning in the web?
Now one more time, I do not and never will grease my cases to fireform them.
(it's my old British Enfield training)
NOTICE: No .243 cases were killed or injured while filming this posting.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Biged,
I was fireforing some 6brx cases yesterday and the shoulders were not square, and then remembered your post, the Vaseline was just the ticket,perfect brass every time, thanks buddy OH by the way my dad gave me his old Lee infield 303 british carbine, the headspace was so bad case head separation was the norm but I got that fixed and I am ready to fire form some brass for it and away we go, any suggestions for my old .303 pops gave me? thanks in advance for any advice.
Wayne.
I was fireforing some 6brx cases yesterday and the shoulders were not square, and then remembered your post, the Vaseline was just the ticket,perfect brass every time, thanks buddy
OH by the way my dad gave me his old Lee infield 303 british carbine, the headspace was so bad case head separation was the norm but I got that fixed and I am ready to fire form some brass for it and away we go, any suggestions for my old .303 pops gave me? thanks in advance for any advice.Wayne.
bigedp51
bozo699 said:Biged,
I was fireforing some 6brx cases yesterday and the shoulders were not square, and then remembered your post, the Vaseline was just the ticket,perfect brass every time, thanks buddy
Wayne.
bozo699
Yes I have some good advice for you...............
1. Ask yourself "WHY" the headspace increased on this Enfield rifle to begin with.
2. Ask yourself "WHAT" are the effects of increased bolt thrust.
3. Now look at the bolt head over rotation below and ask yourself why you would want to double the bolt thrust on your Enfield rifle by lubing the cartridge cases.
Please note the Enfield rifle was proof pressure tested with oiled proof cartridges to "SEAT" the bolt lugs and bolt head. If the headspace increased .003 after proofing the rifle failed proofing for excessive lug set back.
Bolt thrust caused the over rotation below, this No.4 bolt had to be replace with a new and "LONGER" bolt to bring the Enfield rifle back into normal headspace requirements.
As I said before the advice of oiling or greasing cartridge cases to fireform them online is getting out of hand and rifles "ARE" being damaged because of this bad advice.
Now ask yourself why the British War Office wrote the following about military rifles in 1929. (and remember I didn't write this the British military did)
Your very lucky bozo699, during the dark ages if more than two people were caught using Vaseline they were scourged and had their library cards revoked.
bigedp51
It looks like you're at it again. As I can see from the examples, you're using the same old pictures, showing the same old broken rifles. You're living in the past, and the advice you're dispensing, over and over is as out dated as the advertising literature's pictures and lettering unless you're talking about poorly made firearms, relics, or collectables. Then, that's a different story.
But that's not the type rifle we're talking about when we lightly lube brass for its first fireforming or subsequent fireforming.
There are thousands, yes thousands of benchrest shooters in the NBRSA and IBS that will tell you and show you why you're completely behind the times when it comes to lubing brass when fireforming while using a modern benchrest rifle. If you haven't seen or shot one of these short-range benchrest rifles: http://www.stevensaccuracy.com/ you're out of touch with their modern building specs and the fact that their chambers are designed to handle 70,000+ PSI. The action alone is $1200 to $1350 each and tolerances are in the 10,000ths to 1,000ths range.
These are not Grandpa's WWII rifle or an old British .303 relic.
It's time to move into the 21st Century! Here's an example of mid-range, modern, benchrest rifle being built: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1opz3d97iY8&feature=related These rifles are very stout and fireforming lightly lubed brass in their chambers the first and even the second time, is routine practice with knowledgeable shooters.
It looks like you're at it again. As I can see from the examples, you're using the same old pictures, showing the same old broken rifles. You're living in the past, and the advice you're dispensing, over and over is as out dated as the advertising literature's pictures and lettering unless you're talking about poorly made firearms, relics, or collectables. Then, that's a different story.
But that's not the type rifle we're talking about when we lightly lube brass for its first fireforming or subsequent fireforming.
There are thousands, yes thousands of benchrest shooters in the NBRSA and IBS that will tell you and show you why you're completely behind the times when it comes to lubing brass when fireforming while using a modern benchrest rifle. If you haven't seen or shot one of these short-range benchrest rifles: http://www.stevensaccuracy.com/ you're out of touch with their modern building specs and the fact that their chambers are designed to handle 70,000+ PSI. The action alone is $1200 to $1350 each and tolerances are in the 10,000ths to 1,000ths range.
These are not Grandpa's WWII rifle or an old British .303 relic.
It's time to move into the 21st Century! Here's an example of mid-range, modern, benchrest rifle being built: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1opz3d97iY8&feature=related These rifles are very stout and fireforming lightly lubed brass in their chambers the first and even the second time, is routine practice with knowledgeable shooters.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Outdoorsman,
I have been trying to tell ed this for the last 158 posts and he just doesn't get it. He for some reason thinks all firearms are built with the sloppiness of that of the .303 British which was always known for being weak and sloppy, heck they were so sloppy and weak they made multiple different bolt heads to make up for growing head space problems, how pathetic is that?? I guess it was a good idea for the poor infantryman in the field of battle when he started having head case separation he could pull a longer bolt head out of his pocket and if he was able to get the broken case out of his rifle he could go back to killing Germans, if not well?.... If the British had been issued O3A3 Springfield's this wouldn't have been a issue At any rate I have been lubing my cases for fireforming for years with no issues, of course I didn't put it on as thick as Ed did in his wonderful illustration 
Wayne.
I have been trying to tell ed this for the last 158 posts and he just doesn't get it. He for some reason thinks all firearms are built with the sloppiness of that of the .303 British which was always known for being weak and sloppy, heck they were so sloppy and weak they made multiple different bolt heads to make up for growing head space problems, how pathetic is that?? I guess it was a good idea for the poor infantryman in the field of battle when he started having head case separation he could pull a longer bolt head out of his pocket and if he was able to get the broken case out of his rifle he could go back to killing Germans, if not well?.... If the British had been issued O3A3 Springfield's this wouldn't have been a issue
At any rate I have been lubing my cases for fireforming for years with no issues, of course I didn't put it on as thick as Ed did in his wonderful illustration Wayne.
Sorry Wayne
As far as the O3-A3 is concerned I'd agree with BigEd.
Never use lube in any military rifle especially the oldies.
I recall reading an article years back about the O3.
There was some sticking problems with the cases. Something to do with the coating on the cases. Memory fails me on specifics. Zinc perhaps? Soldiers where advised to coat thier rounds with axle grease to avoid stuck cases. Cases no longer stuck but broken rifles started appearing quickly. Orders were changed to NO LUBE!!!
Eventually the ordinance department corrected the ammo issue but it took awhile for the lubing to stop.
Anyhow small point perhaps but Ed is correct that bad info needs to be nipped in the bud quickly.
I know for a fact my Savages will handle any load I decide to stick in em. Case heads will blow long before the action. Old War relics? Might get away with it, Might not. I'm not brave enough to find out
PS I don't recommend being as crazy as I once was with a Savage either. If your cases are about to rupture you need to slap yourself and go home ;D
Theres no accuracy up there, quarenteed
As far as the O3-A3 is concerned I'd agree with BigEd.
Never use lube in any military rifle especially the oldies.
I recall reading an article years back about the O3.
There was some sticking problems with the cases. Something to do with the coating on the cases. Memory fails me on specifics. Zinc perhaps? Soldiers where advised to coat thier rounds with axle grease to avoid stuck cases. Cases no longer stuck but broken rifles started appearing quickly. Orders were changed to NO LUBE!!!
Eventually the ordinance department corrected the ammo issue but it took awhile for the lubing to stop.
Anyhow small point perhaps but Ed is correct that bad info needs to be nipped in the bud quickly.
I know for a fact my Savages will handle any load I decide to stick in em. Case heads will blow long before the action. Old War relics? Might get away with it, Might not. I'm not brave enough to find out
PS I don't recommend being as crazy as I once was with a Savage either. If your cases are about to rupture you need to slap yourself and go home ;D
Theres no accuracy up there, quarenteed
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