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Final Camp Perry F class results - Anywhere?

XTR

F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Have the official F class results from Camp Perry ever been posted anywhere? I searched the NRA website and came up blank, and other than the photos of some of the matches I posted here when I left I can't find them.
 
FroggyOne2 said:
I was not saying yes that there are results posted Wade, I was saying yes to your response before my yes!

OK, I was as confused by your response as I was searching for them. I am however still confused by the NRA's response, they didn't say where they will post them, just that they will.
 
This is rediculous. I am not even an F class shooter but was interested in the scores and even just the cultivation of the venue during Camp Perry. Who is running the NRA these days, the Obama cabinet??

JS
 
After being at Camp Perry for over a month they tend to take vacations and forget that the job at hand is not complete......until they get all the phone messages and emails when they return.

Usually July, Aug. and Sept are the worst months to try to get anything from the NRA Competition Division.
 
Crow said:
Howzit the Match Winner often has a lower score than Match 2nd?

The high shooter of each rifle type from each relay (ties not broken past X-count) go to the shoot-off. High shooter in the shootoff wins the match. The rest of the places are determined by score in the original match.

Being on the relay that's shooting when the rain squall blows through can do a number on your aggregate score, but at least you still have a chance to win the single match in the shoot-off if you put up a good-for-the-conditions score.
 
Crow said:
Howzit the Match Winner often has a lower score than Match 2nd?

The high score from each relay went to a shoot-off to determine the winner.

This was an attempt to even the field for the relays that got hammered by wind. This doesn't show relay numbers but typically relays 3/4 scores were seven to ten points lower than the same shooters when they shot in relays 1/2.

I like the system, I can relate my experinece. I shot Relay 1 in the first match, shot a 193, I'm pretty sure I was second in the relay and missed the shootoff by 3 points, and finished 5th overall. The second day I was in Relay 3 and shot a 180, the guy who made the shootoff from my relay with a 186 was the same guy who shot a 196 the day before. (he also shot a 193 when I shot a 190, I needed a 3 point handicap) I scored for relay 4 and watched two shooters who would typically shoot mid to high 190s shoot a 181 and a 170something.

My one suggestion for a change to the NRA would be to seed the shooters in the relays by TR and Open discipline and not just F-class. As it was done this time we were all just put randomly into relays. In general the relays were pretty even, but there was one relay that may have had only one TR shooter, maybe two, so in that relay you pretty well make the shootoff as soon as you put one in the target for record. Not a complaint, it's the first time with this format, just a suggestion for anyone else who uses this format.
 
Crow said:
Thanks Nate & XTR.

Seems like a very good format for leveling the playing field. Just be sure to bring 40 rounds plus sighters for every match.

The shootoffs were only 2 sighters and 10 rounds I think.
 
XTR said:
My one suggestion for a change to the NRA would be to seed the shooters in the relays by TR and Open discipline and not just F-class. As it was done this time we were all just put randomly into relays. In general the relays were pretty even, but there was one relay that may have had only one TR shooter, maybe two, so in that relay you pretty well make the shootoff as soon as you put one in the target for record. Not a complaint, it's the first time with this format, just a suggestion for anyone else who uses this format.

They squad all the LR matches randomly. (Well, usually they put the top 20 or 25 shooters in the aggregate on the same relay for the Palma individual, but didn't this year) When there are only 20-ish of each F/TR and F/Open spread over four relays, that means an average of 5-6 shooters, a little bit of random chance, and there could be only three or fewer of one type on your relay.

And, every so often, folks suggest that the relays for the LR matches should be seeded. (Often by someone who notices that a higher-than-average number of top shooters are on his relay, or when there's a particularly tough relay that knocks a bunch of top shooters out of contention for the aggregate) That would be a big change, and whether or not it *should* happen, the NRA hasn't done it when it's been suggested in the past.

The across-the-course NRA matches, however, are seeded with the top shooters all on the same relay in the center of the range.
 
FroggyOne2 said:
Yeah, well I am still waiting for a National Record to be certified from last year in Oct @ Memphis!


I wouldn't hold your breath any longer, I and a bunch of others have set set NR's since 2007 and as the NRA explained they can't be bothered with the past as it's all they can do to keep up with the present, and that they do mighty slow. It took weekly calls and daily emails to get a NR's that were shot July 2010 Awarded in April of 2011 and I was happy to get it that soon. Records shot in 07, 08 & 09
were never Awarded with most now being beaten, but just the same I bet it didn't take 8 months for Dennis Willings NR to get Awarded.
 
Wade,

First, the squadding routine is not going to change, it has been like that for years! And I don't believe that it is taking the high shooter from each relay into a shootoff in order to even the playing field due to wind conditions, as you allow it to be. It has been that way for a long time, the high three out of the four relays goes to the shootoff, Dad Farr shot a clean with a 1903 during the Wimbolton match in 1926 I believe the year was. He shot 70 V's in a row, shooting irons against scoped rifles. So it is not about the wind conditions and evening the playing field, it is about the high shooters duking it out for the number one slot and over all winner.
Second, you'all F-Class shooters being there was due to the fact that International Fullbore includes F-Class, as for you'all, it was an experiment for the NRA to have you there during the National Long Range Championships. There is no indicator that they will bring the F-Class shooters back to Perry for the long range phase. You might as well as look at it right now as a one off thing.
Third, being that it was your first time to Perry and not completely understanding the ways and tribulations of how it goes there, I can understand your frustration, but grasshopper, you must understand that Perry "is what it is" and roll with it. It takes years to get something changed there!
 
Second, you'all F-Class shooters being there was due to the fact that International Fullbore includes F-Class, as for you'all, it was an experiment for the NRA to have you there during the National Long Range Championships. There is no indicator that they will bring the F-Class shooters back to Perry for the long range phase. You might as well as look at it right now as a one off thing.
US all F-class shooters are what is keep your sport alive. Everywhere I shoot there are twice as many if not more F-class guys than sling guys. Funny enough the F-class guys are always great to talk to. Most of the sling guys are assholes. No wonder!

I know what it is, you think F-class is way to easy!

The way that the majority of you sling guys think, is what's going to kill your discipline.
 
FroggyOne2 said:
Wade,

First, the squadding routine is not going to change, it has been like that for years! And I don't believe that it is taking the high shooter from each relay into a shootoff in order to even the playing field due to wind conditions, as you allow it to be. It has been that way for a long time, the high three out of the four relays goes to the shootoff, Dad Farr shot a clean with a 1903 during the Wimbolton match in 1926 I believe the year was. He shot 70 V's in a row, shooting irons against scoped rifles. So it is not about the wind conditions and evening the playing field, it is about the high shooters duking it out for the number one slot and over all winner.
Second, you'all F-Class shooters being there was due to the fact that International Fullbore includes F-Class, as for you'all, it was an experiment for the NRA to have you there during the National Long Range Championships. There is no indicator that they will bring the F-Class shooters back to Perry for the long range phase. You might as well as look at it right now as a one off thing.
Third, being that it was your first time to Perry and not completely understanding the ways and tribulations of how it goes there, I can understand your frustration, but grasshopper, you must understand that Perry "is what it is" and roll with it. It takes years to get something changed there!

What ever the reasons behind the shootoffs, it achieves the same ends. If you get heinous wind in your relay and still out shoot the rest of the guys you get to shoot in the shootoff even if your score is 10 points lower than the entire first relay. As for the F class squadding this yr. If you put one F-TR shooter in a relay and the rest are F-Open he makes every shootoff no matter his score. That's pretty much what happened this yr in one relay. (when you cross fire and still make the shootoff something is broken) I'm just sayin'. :)

I won't be surprised by any decisions one way or the other on whether or not F class ever goes back to Perry, but by the look of it there are a lot of empty targets if the 'Effers" keep getting left out. There are what 150 or so firing points on the Viale Range. We started at 118. Based on the attendance (or lack of) by sling and jacket shooters I won't be at all surprised to see F class on the schedule next yr.

To some people it seems to hold some mysitcal significance, and I admit the opportunity to shoot there was enticing to me, but after being there, it's pretty much just another match. It's a big match with lots of people, but I'm not planning my yr around it. A lot of people have shot a lot of bullets there, and for the sling and jacket guys it's the National Championships. For me it was another Regional. There were a whole lot of Open shooters there, but we had as many TR shooters here in Oak Ridge for our Regional as we did there (22 at OR, 24 at CP) and other than the Canadians (who added two names to the roster) the top shooters have the same names.

After six yrs in the Navy and a 20+ year career dealing with the bureaucracies both cooperate and governmental I understand how it works (or doesn't) so nothing will surprise me. I also understand that there are sling and jacket shooters who think F-class is "the end of shooting as we know it" (I got that comment in the parking lot), but F class is here and growing, sling and iron participation is falling, and the NRA wants entry fees, so I expect that even if it's not next year at some point F class will become a permanent part of the Camp Perry Matches.
 

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