Failure to fire

[DShortt]

Some primers are a bit more difficult to ignite than others.

Given that the primer pockets are deeper on the Peterson brass and that the cases are a bit shorter, those will require a 'stiffer' primer strike.

Add to those conditions a bolt/firing pin assembly that might need cleaned and that's definitely a recipe for inconsistencies.

 

[DShortt]

I'm not understanding how that can be if the primer pockets are within spec.

I don't understand that, either. Should be about .007" below the case head with the information provided.

In post #22, the measurements provided were .008" to .0014" below flush.

So, which is it? .0014" or .014".

That's nearly .013" difference. And makes no sense that the primers would seat that deep with the other provided information.

Beginning to wonder what is fact.

Ya'll have fun. I'm out.

 

[ebb]

I doubt the low temp would cause that many not to fire, but magnum primers were designed for really cold weather. Could the oil or grease in the bolt have gotten so cold it jelled up and prevented enough movement to fire the already cold primers ??

 

[Vandelayindustries]

I don't understand that, either. Should be about .007" below the case head with the information provided.

In post #22, the measurements provided were .008" to .0014" below flush.

So, which is it? .0014" or .014".

That's nearly .013" difference. And makes no sense that the primers would seat that deep with the other provided information.

Beginning to wonder what is fact.

Ya'll have fun. I'm out.

.014 was the correct number for that post.

 

[DShortt]

.014 was the correct number for that post.

So, explain to me how a primer pocket with a depth of .131" and a primer of .125" can be seated .014" deep.

Something isn't right.

.008 with crush? Yeah, I'll buy that.

.014"?

 

[Vandelayindustries]

So, explain to me how a primer pocket with a depth of .131" and a primer of .125" can be seated .014" deep.

Something isn't right.

I have no idea. Very light pressure on the primer handle and it’s at .014. At .006 to touch that’s mean I’m crushing .008 I have to really go extremely light on the handle to achieve a flush to .004 below flush seat. And I already tried one at -.004 it FTF and seated the primer deeper to .009 or so ( as I previously mentioned). I’m not blowing smoke. I’m honestly pretty frustrated. I burned all day today trying to figure out a custom rifle that is giving me headaches.

Edit: obviously I’d say I went to hard seating the primers. But I think there’s something more going on.

 

[DShortt]

I have no idea. Very light pressure on the primer handle and it’s at .014. At .006 to touch that’s mean I’m crushing .008 I have to really go extremely light on the handle to achieve a flush to .004 below flush seat. And I already tried one at -.004 it FTF and seated the primer deeper to .009 or so ( as I previously mentioned). I’m not blowing smoke. I’m honestly pretty frustrated. I burned all day today trying to figure out a custom rifle that is giving me headaches.

Edit: obviously I’d say I went to hard seating the primers. But I think there’s something more going on.

So, perhaps this is relevant, perhaps it isn't.

What primer seating tool are you using?

Do you reload for other cartridges?

If so, do you use the same tool?

I don't know how a primer with a height of .125" could be set in a pocket of .131" and wind up being .014" deep.

Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's not possible.

So I'll try to understand this with you.

 

[DShortt]

So, let's back up.

Measure 20 primer pocket depths on the Peterson brass to ensure consistency.

And measure 20 primers, again to ensure consistency.

Then, and only then can we begin to suspect primer 'crush'.

 

[Oso]

Why was your ammo acclimated to 10f?

^^^ I immediately thought about this. Brother in Alaska keeps complaining about rimfire no longer igniting when temps fall below 30F…

I left this off my list …. I thought maybe his hunting conditions might require 10F. What do I know… I’m in Texas and worry about 110F.

 

[Vandelayindustries]

So, perhaps this is relevant, perhaps it isn't.

What primer seating tool are you using?

Do you reload for other cartridges?

If so, do you use the same tool?

I don't know how a primer with a height of .125" could be set in a pocket of .131" and wind up being .014" deep.

Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's not possible.

So I'll try to understand this with you.

It’s a RCBS bench priming tool.
I use that for all my priming.

For the heck of it I measured a couple of my other loads that all run fine. My 6.5cm is at .013, my 223 rem is at .008 and my 243win is at .010.
Maybe I’m going a little hamfist on the priming depth. However they all fire no issues.

Okay the average of 20 depths came out to .129 with the max being .132 and the min being .1275
The primer average is .1254 , max was .1265 and min was .1245

 

[DShortt]

It ought to go "Bang!' At 10°F.

I've hunted in ambient temps well below that without FTF.

 

[DShortt]

It’s a RCBS bench priming tool.
I use that for all my priming.

For the heck of it I measured a couple of my other loads that all run fine. My 6.5cm is at .013, my 223 rem is at .008 and my 243win is at .010.
Maybe I’m going a little hamfist on the priming depth. However they all fire no issues.

Okay the average of 20 depths came out to .129 with the max being .132 and the min being .1275
The primer average is .1254 , max was .1265 and min was .1245

Well then, the obvious answer is you're really smashing the snot out of them.

But why is this just now showing up?

That I can't answer.

 

[One Eye Pete]

.061 is quite a bit of firing pin protrusion. With .061 firing pin protrusion you should easily be able to set off primers at .014 recess into the case. Your headspace doesn’t seem to be excessively short and in the picture it looks like the primers have been hit enough. However, the question is have they been hit hard enough. With a Remington clone action you can get into trouble if you don’t have enough firing pin fall (total firing pin forward movement) because if you don’t have enough pin fall the pin doesn’t hit the primer hard enough. Remington actions usually require about 0.24 in of firing pin fall. The other thing I know for sure that can cause the firing pin not to hit hard enough especially in cold weather is grease. I know cause I made this mistake years ago on a Savage action. I thought a little grease on the firing pin spring would make things work real smooth. WRONG!!!!! Especially in cold weather grease restricts the firing pin. Since I made this dumb mistake I never use grease anywhere near the firing pin. The only lubricant I will use on or near a firing pin is Hobo oil (an excellent lightweight firearm lubricant) and I only use it very very sparingly.
I suspect that the grease and the possibility of stacking tolerances with deeply recessed primers is the problem. You are probably not hitting them hard enough. Have you tried with new primers since you cleaned the grease off?

 

[243winxb]

SAAMI

⅕

 

[DShortt]

SAAMI

View attachment 1728041⅕

Agreed. Flush to .008"

Not .014".

With the primer and pocket dimensions provided, that should not be happening.

 

[Vandelayindustries]

.061 is quite a bit of firing pin protrusion. With .061 firing pin protrusion you should easily be able to set off primers at .014 recess into the case. Your headspace doesn’t seem to be excessively short and in the picture it looks like the primers have been hit enough. However, the question is have they been hit hard enough. With a Remington clone action you can get into trouble if you don’t have enough firing pin fall (total firing pin forward movement) because if you don’t have enough pin fall the pin doesn’t hit the primer hard enough. Remington actions usually require about 0.24 in of firing pin fall. The other thing I know for sure that can cause the firing pin not to hit hard enough especially in cold weather is grease. I know cause I made this mistake years ago on a Savage action. I thought a little grease on the firing pin spring would make things work real smooth. WRONG!!!!! Especially in cold weather grease restricts the firing pin. Since I made this dumb mistake I never use grease anywhere near the firing pin. The only lubricant I will use on or near a firing pin is Hobo oil (an excellent lightweight firearm lubricant) and I only use it very very sparingly.
I suspect that the grease and the possibility of stacking tolerances with deeply recessed primers is the problem. You are probably not hitting them hard enough. Have you tried with new primers since you cleaned the grease off?

Good info thank you.
That’s tomorrows project. I ran out of daylight by the time I got to cleaning the grease off.

 

[Vandelayindustries]

Agreed. Flush to .008"

Not .014".

With the primer and pocket dimensions provided, that should not be happening.

Yes I agree I’m moving them in too deep. No argument there

 

[JB10]

I just bought 200 peterson 6mm creedmoor lrp brass. I have shot 40 rounds so far that were first time loads. Have not had one issue so far. Im using federal 210 primers. I do not know how deep the primers are as i use an rcbs bench primer. I just seat till they stop. Mine is a factory rifle also.

 

[DShortt]

The bolt/pin assembly probably should be cleaned. I suspected that early on.

But.

The .014" seating depth is a problem for sure.

 

[Webster]

Yes it’s a 700 clone. I did just pull it apart and there is a healthy amount of grease back by the shroud and back of the sprimg(opposite side of firing pin). I’ll clean it out and put it back together. See what happens tomorrow because I’m out of daylight here

I would put a light coat of oil on the spring and shroud bore. My Rem 700 has a lot of scuffing where the FP comes out of the shroud when it's cocked. No grease.