Failure to fire

[MUP]

10° hmmm, and left the ammo out to acclimate to the cold. I use CCI LR primers as well, in most of my bottleneck rifle loads. I have had some hang fires in my 300 WinMag in those single digit temps before, using RL 22. The remedy for me was to go up to Magnum primers. Also seating depth varying, as has already been noted. I read the first two pages, and this is just my experience having hang fires on single digit temps.

 

[neckturner]

Still odd to me the factory rounds fired just fine.

Agreed. At this point it's about eliminating suspects and possible contributing factors. I expect that there are a number of things adding up to ftf.

 

[Vandelayindustries]

Update:
I had a minute on my lunch break to try the rifle after cleaning the grease off.
15/16 fired only 1FTF. And this was on the ammo that the primers were seated up to .014” below flush. I think that solved the issue. I’ll take more care to not seat the primes so deep and I think I’ll be good to go.

Thank you everyone for all the help!

 

[RegionRat]

Glad that worked out.
Take this incident and the stimulus to learn how to inspect, maintain, clean, and lube your bolt group.

I can't even estimate the number of click-no-bang problems we have had while taking hunters into the mountains, especially in the colder years.

It happened so often that I started bringing all my bolt tools and spare parts on trips and have had to clean and re-lube or repair dozens of rifles that caused a failure on a hunt.

In the majority of those incidents, the owners had never maintained their bolt and it was a simple matter of cleaning and relubing. Some of them required parts or springs.

About half were able to fill their tags in the good years, but for some of them it cost them their hunt.

Happy New Year!

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I've only seen bolt issues when well below zero temps, since I'm out in that every year, I use -50 rated lube(where lube is needed).

 

[Webster]

Rifle-
Brand new.
6mm Creedmoor. Defiance anti-x with PVA carbon prefit, trigger tech rough diamond.

Conditions:
10*F ammo left out (under cover) for an hour before firing.

What I’ve checked:
1.Recheck headspace with go/ no go gauge. All good.
2.same lot of primers in a different rifle fired all 10 rounds no issue.

Factory ammo:
Ran all 12 rounds that I fired through it flawlessly (sig elite series -100 gr).

Hand load:
7 out of 16 rounds did not fire.
Using CCI200, virgin Peterson brass (did not run through a sizer), H4350 (1.0gr under book max) ,95 tmk. COAL 2.770.

Question:
I’m assuming it’s something with the hand load. I’d normally suspect the primer but no issues in another rifle. Next thought was the firing pin/spring but it ran all the factory ammo just fine. Not sure what’s going on?

Picture:
Top of the pic- factory sig.
Next rows are all my hand loads. The ones that stick up higher are the FTF rounds.

Ideas?

Edit to add info after a page of discussion:
1. Yes there is powder in all the cases
2. Datum to case head is the same on both fired vs no fired
3. The rounds that did fire had the primers seated flush.
4. Primers set from .0045-.014 below flush all FTF. I believe Sammi spec is up to .008 below flush.
5. One of the primes set to .0045 below flush did not fire but was pushed further down to .0095 below flush

I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec to seat primers.

 

[DShortt]

I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec to seat primers.

There is a diagram in post #74. Not sure of the source.

 

[RegionRat]

I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec to seat primers.

The diagram in post #74 is from the SAAMI spec, it is page 30 from the rifle document.
I'll post a larger snapshot so that everything shows.


https://saami.org/technical-information/ansi-saami-standards/

 

[209jones]

I'm inclined to think there was the possibility of the pinfall being slowed enough not to deliver the punch a primer needs to have, to go bang. Maybe some gunk in the bolt behind the pinhole cushioning it or some combination thereof. Also maybe seating the primers with a bit of real cup crush to get to the .013 depth mark, the slow or cushioned pinfall and extra distance could easily be the bulk of whole issue. I strip bolts before hunting season and make sure the back side of the bolt face where the pin stops, is cleaned out, clean any lube off and wipe with a thin syn oil, then wipe that off and leave it lot closer to being a dry bolt than a "lubed" one. Never know what the temps will do in Nov where I live, could be 40F at 7;00AM and -25F by 2-3;00pm. Learned all about that the hard way in late 1970's, trying to blast at a wabbit with my BBR. Was interesting with an SBE too, "oops, forgot to delube this one, didn't I" as I listen to the bolt take about a full second to slide thru a cycle. And then proceed to tear it apart to do that, between incoming birds, gets cool on the pinkies, was only about 0F that day.

 

[Toms]

.013 yes agreed. But I had a couple at .008 below flush. That right on the edge of Sammi spec. That’s why I wonder about the firing pin protrusion now.

Apologies for repeating myself. Doing my best to answer everyone

I had some 223 loads that wouldn’t fire in my Dackota but did in my Remington. I checked and the cases were over sized. Shoulder was pushed back .008”. I pulled bullets, neck sized brass and seated bullets to jamb. They fired fine.

 

[Webster]

The diagram in post #74 is from the SAAMI spec, it is page 30 from the rifle document.
I'll post a larger snapshot so that everything shows.

View attachment 1728408
https://saami.org/technical-information/ansi-saami-standards/

Not sure but I think the SAAMI spec is for safety to prevent slam fires, not accuracy related or for good ignition.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

I had a FTF experience some time ago with CCI primers. Chased my tail for weeks trying to figure out what the problem was. Finally decided it must have been bad primers. Hasn't happened since.

 

[RegionRat]

Not sure but I think the SAAMI spec is for safety to prevent slam fires, not accuracy related or for good ignition.

It is for both.

Some primers have a "two ball" test, one where they shall not fire when struck in the test fixture with the lighter ball, and must ignite when struck with the heavy ball. (ETA: this wasn't clear on my part, this is what protects against slam fire for a properly installed primer. You can also get an accident when they are not installed below flush.)

When the primers are installed into a "bomb" test where their output performance is measured, you can see that their performance will statistically degrade when they are outside of that crush range in either direction.

That isn't to say this is a difficult installation requirement. They have a fairly generous range where they work well. They still mostly work outside of this range, but it does degrade accuracy, and eventually the reliability.