I don't think the NRA rule on this has anything to do with noise level or hearing protection. Even if they were legal in competition, not everyone would be using them so you'd still need plugs or muffs. My guess is that the rule is based on the recoil reduction provided by suppressors. They give an advantage in that regard to those using them, so they are prohibited, same with muzzle brakes. Whether they increase or decrease accuracy is irrelevant, I don't know of any rules that use that as a criteria. If you want less recoil, you need to make adjustments to your rifle or load that conform to the rules.
F/TR can you use a suppressor
- Thread starter fm1947
- Start date
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
gawga_boy said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said.
Suppressors give the shooter a huge advantage with the recoil reduction they offer. Recoil management is critical and anything that mitigates it to any extent is a good thing. Just MY $.02.
Without the suppressor on my 300 Win Mag long range steel gun, there is no way I could shoot 230 gr. Bergers at 2900+ and still keep my retinas intact. Anyone care to argue whether 230 Berger Hybrids would be an advantage in F-Class.
Just because a piece of equipment isn't universally available doesn't mean the NRA should disallow it for competition. If that was the case, AR15s and all pistols need to be immediately banned from NRA matches.
As to the recoil, yes, the suppressor does give a recoil reduction. However, the loss of accuracy over the course of fire negates it. No serious F Classer is going to run one on a half MOA target, at least not with the current flavors, as good as they are.
PRS and similar matches are filling and have a wait list at $250-$500 a match. I'm not implying that our COF be changed, but being more inclusive can only help. That was the push for the F Class rules in the first place.
Persoanlly, I wouldn't run one if I was shooting to win BUT I also don't like the precident the NRA is setting. They should be pushing to regain more of our rights without having to ask big brother for permission and waiting 6-9 months. Legalizing them for national competition would be a step in the right direction and could do nothing but help the cause of removing these from the NFA act.
As to the recoil, yes, the suppressor does give a recoil reduction. However, the loss of accuracy over the course of fire negates it. No serious F Classer is going to run one on a half MOA target, at least not with the current flavors, as good as they are.
PRS and similar matches are filling and have a wait list at $250-$500 a match. I'm not implying that our COF be changed, but being more inclusive can only help. That was the push for the F Class rules in the first place.
Persoanlly, I wouldn't run one if I was shooting to win BUT I also don't like the precident the NRA is setting. They should be pushing to regain more of our rights without having to ask big brother for permission and waiting 6-9 months. Legalizing them for national competition would be a step in the right direction and could do nothing but help the cause of removing these from the NFA act.
FatBoy said:
Good points. More inclusive can only be better if there is not a significant competitive advantage.
A few years back some guys with suppressors were routinely beating me in a long range precision type of match. But the equipment had nothing to do with it. They were better prepared, were working well with their spotters, and they were reading the wind better. I eventually improved my skills and won as often as I lost.
Suppressors on the line in F-Class would be cool.
That's a strawman argument. You know what I'm saying but you're being obtuse because (I think ) you disaree. Not sure of you've ever worked with the NRA, but the competition division s an afterthought until they need to point to a legitimate civilian use of something.
The NRA can and should have a place for almost every NFA items. You want to shoot a M16 XTC. No problem. Don't expect to win. You want to shoot a 15" shotgun at sporting clays? Sure, don't expect to win. Just because a tool isn't the best for the job doesn't meat it should be banned.
I go round and round with SR shooters on this sh!t. Thank God they don't get their way most of the time or the line would be filled with '03s and Garands. Everything else would be cheating.
Brakes are dangerous on the line. Suppressor aren't. If the only reason do disallow them is recoil reduction, so be it. The NRA is missing an opportunity. When I started shooting XTC and LR in '01 we routinely had 85-100 shooters at regions and state championships. Now, we're lucky to have 25 to maybe 60 with F Class making up 60+ percent. My first (only) year at Perry was 2004 and there were almost 500 shooters for the Wimbledon and Leech cup. 2014, 133. At the rate we're going there are maybe 7-10 more years until the sport is dead.
The NRA can and should have a place for almost every NFA items. You want to shoot a M16 XTC. No problem. Don't expect to win. You want to shoot a 15" shotgun at sporting clays? Sure, don't expect to win. Just because a tool isn't the best for the job doesn't meat it should be banned.
I go round and round with SR shooters on this sh!t. Thank God they don't get their way most of the time or the line would be filled with '03s and Garands. Everything else would be cheating.
Brakes are dangerous on the line. Suppressor aren't. If the only reason do disallow them is recoil reduction, so be it. The NRA is missing an opportunity. When I started shooting XTC and LR in '01 we routinely had 85-100 shooters at regions and state championships. Now, we're lucky to have 25 to maybe 60 with F Class making up 60+ percent. My first (only) year at Perry was 2004 and there were almost 500 shooters for the Wimbledon and Leech cup. 2014, 133. At the rate we're going there are maybe 7-10 more years until the sport is dead.
Erud said:
I don't disagree at all. I don't even shoot f-class. I only got into this discussion to point out that the rule on suppressors is there because of the competitive edge they offer due to reduced recoil. Not because of noise, and not because of anything to do with our God-given liberties. This is not about the second amendment.
Erud said:
I would bet we see more eye to eye on this than the thread indicates. I'm invested in this, and have been since Larrry, Paul, Jeff, Brad and I conferenced up and drafted the rules. At the time, supressor never came up and I wouldn't have been for them. A lot has changed since then and I am far less willing to give even an inch.
I need to leave this alone. I'm letting emotion into what was an asked and answered questions in the first few replies. The ban due to recoil makes sense but they aren't a magic pill for sure.
I hope I'm not the Larry your talking about. I don't shoot F class or do I intend to.FatBoy said:
My response was dealing with hearing . Recoil came up ad I responded to that.
I feel NRA should look at suppressor for no other then hearing. Larry
whatwind?
Silver $$ Contributor
Adding another $1250 to the cost should in consideration also, I know it's not a consideration for most, but the arms race is probably part of it
People should be able to petition to use one with a dr's note
Also, why not just use one and keep your own score and know where you would have finished...
We need more ranges and more shooters to support the sport
People should be able to petition to use one with a dr's note
Also, why not just use one and keep your own score and know where you would have finished...
We need more ranges and more shooters to support the sport
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