F-Class Nationals Lodi, Wi

[memilanuk]

Dean,

I got to shoot on targets 11, 3, 13 (team day) and 2. Targets 2 & 3 were definitely the 'children of the corn' firing points, otherwise known as 'Pigpen Alley'

Monte

 

[spclark]

Those of you mentioning the condition of firing points on the low end - they're new this year.

Once it was 'discovered' that what had been the original point #1 was quite some way north of where it needed to be so a shooter there was shooting 'square' to the target, those firing points in the pig pen had to be constructed out of the cornfield verge it used to be.

Shooters need to be square to those targeting sensors down-range so that the system can work as designed.

Add that it's been unusually wet here in Wisconsin this year, I think you can trust the wallows to be filled in before next season begins. Nobody - even sling-shooters like me - likes shooting from a wet ditch, or falling backwards off the firing point when scoring. (Service rifle shooters might, come to think of it, but they're pretty few & far between beyond the 600-yard stuff fired at WGC.)

 

[Medic505]

Dean,

I got to shoot on targets 11, 3, 13 (team day) and 2. Targets 2 & 3 were definitely the 'children of the corn' firing points, otherwise known as 'Pigpen Alley'

Monte

Ahhhh, build it, and they will come......

 

[Alexander-M]

Among many other things that I enjoyed and appreciated, I want to thank the participants who took the time to snap pictures of the score sheets and posted them on this forum. Will there be an 'official' results and scores report? If so, where may I find it?

Thanks!

Nando

 

[Mudeat]

Those of you mentioning the condition of firing points on the low end - they're new this year.

Once it was 'discovered' that what had been the original point #1 was quite some way north of where it needed to be so a shooter there was shooting 'square' to the target, those firing points in the pig pen had to be constructed out of the cornfield verge it used to be.

Shooters need to be square to those targeting sensors down-range so that the system can work as designed.

Add that it's been unusually wet here in Wisconsin this year, I think you can trust the wallows to be filled in before next season begins. Nobody - even sling-shooters like me - likes shooting from a wet ditch, or falling backwards off the firing point when scoring. (Service rifle shooters might, come to think of it, but they're pretty few & far between beyond the 600-yard stuff fired at WGC.)

Sorry, "corn hole, pig pen" too much local jargon for me. I shoot there occasionally, is there something in the corn hole I should watch out for?


Oval

 

[memilanuk]

Will there be an 'official' results and scores report? If so, where may I find it?

Karin said it will be a few days before they publish the 'official' results.

 

[kybountyhunter]

I have to echo some of the earlier posts. Mike Plunkett is a great guy and one heck of a shooter. Congrats buddy!

All of the shooters that consistently put up high scores should be proud. The conditions were challenging to say the least...

Thanks Ryan! It was a lot of fun and thanks to everyone for the unbelievable support and encouragement all week.. it's that type of support and encouragement from shooter's that you don't even know, that makes our sport what is today!

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[LRCampos]

.

It was my second F-Class Nationals and I liked it a lot.

I look forward for the oficial results published on a organized order for the Long Range. It was odd to see the Team results published without their classification order.

Also, on the Silver Mountain website, is possible to access the "eletronic target" of every shoooter on any match, with all the functionalities of the system. It is real nice!!!

There is also the Mid Range results.

http://www.silvermountaintargets.com/2016-us-fcnc.html



LRCampos

 

[Dennis]

I don't think we will ever get a accurate count of the man hours that went into preparing the range and running the match. Hosting a Nationals requires a huge expenditure of man hours going into things the competitors never see. Since this was the first Nationals using e-targets we learned a lot and recognize where changes must be made and what improvements we must make. Some things that people have mentioned are beyond our control, such as cell reception. I have no idea how many hours SMT spent on the range diagnosing problems and fixing them. Sadly, we had no control over the weather either.

As to the issue of cross fires; I have no idea why some had problems and others didn't. Having shot on the e-targets for about 5 weeks before the match I can say that it is easy to become enamored with watching the screen and loosing track of what you are doing and failing to heed the wind flags. Any new experience is that way, and does require a learning curve.

The pads........some were problematic and some weren't. My personal Lenovo pad did not suffer as many dreaded red X's as others did. We did pull problematic ones as soon as it was evident they were a problem. Why the ipads and Samsung tablets didn't have many of these problems is beyond my knowledge base. We are currently looking into a way to rectify this problem. While I was working the line, the major problems I encountered were shooters/scorers not logging out so the next shooter/scorer could log in. This is easy to fix.

I would like to thank all the shooters who competed, and no matter what your scores, I hope you enjoyed your time at Lodi.

 

[243Mendoza]

[QUOTE="Dennis, post: 36845087, member: 109537"...
The pads........some were problematic and some weren't. My personal Lenovo pad did not suffer as many dreaded red X's as others did. We did pull problematic ones as soon as it was evident they were a problem. Why the ipads and Samsung tablets didn't have many of these problems is beyond my knowledge base. We are currently looking into a way to rectify this problem. ...[/QUOTE]

I have a laptop and Amazon Fire tablet. At 600yd the laptop has no problem but the tablet did have problems connecting. If I use the repeater, the tablet works fine. I suspect the wireless antenna in the tablet is not of the same quality or size?

 

[fbraun]

I don't think we will ever get a accurate count of the man hours that went into preparing the range and running the match. Hosting a Nationals requires a huge expenditure of man hours going into things the competitors never see. Since this was the first Nationals using e-targets we learned a lot and recognize where changes must be made and what improvements we must make. Some things that people have mentioned are beyond our control, such as cell reception. I have no idea how many hours SMT spent on the range diagnosing problems and fixing them. Sadly, we had no control over the weather either.

As to the issue of cross fires; I have no idea why some had problems and others didn't. Having shot on the e-targets for about 5 weeks before the match I can say that it is easy to become enamored with watching the screen and loosing track of what you are doing and failing to heed the wind flags. Any new experience is that way, and does require a learning curve.

The pads........some were problematic and some weren't. My personal Lenovo pad did not suffer as many dreaded red X's as others did. We did pull problematic ones as soon as it was evident they were a problem. Why the ipads and Samsung tablets didn't have many of these problems is beyond my knowledge base. We are currently looking into a way to rectify this problem. While I was working the line, the major problems I encountered were shooters/scorers not logging out so the next shooter/scorer could log in. This is easy to fix.

I would like to thank all the shooters who ..........

Dennis
My $0.02 follows:
I understand the work involved in hosting an event such as the Nationals. I had one problem with the e-targets and a couple with the range itself.
They are few, so I'll list them:
1. Range problem 1: the low end of the 1000 yard firing line should have been sodded over, or a couple of truckloads of sand spread carefully over positions 1 to 8. I think it's a shame to expect any participant to pay $400 and have to wallow in the mud (literally) in order to shoot a match. My last day was on target 7. I broke a cardinal rule which is never to lose my cool at a match. But I couldn't help it. There was no place keep equipment clean in this muck and knowing that I'd have to lay down in that crap made it worse. My scores on that day were not bad but could have been better if I'd shot on the grass and not in the mud.
I already paid the price and wallowed in mud during two tours in Nam.....

2. Range problem 2: It would have been a lot nicer if the grasss had been mowed on the 1000 yard line the day before the match started.

3. As to the e-targets, I experienced some of the BIG RED X's but those tended not to last. Fortunately most of mine happened while scoring and not shooting. My biggest problem with the targets occurred on the last day , last match and probably had nothing to do with the electronics.
I'd already had a good zero and shot match 1 on target 7. I remember that after match one someone went down to change the faces before match 2 started. Well, when it came time to shoot the 2 sighters on match 2 both of my sighters were 1 minute high and 1/2 minute right. I ended up taking a minute off the gun after the second sighter. At the end of the day I wasted both sighters. The target face was definitely in a different position than it had been for match one. This is something to be very careful with as to changing faces in between matches.

Fritz

 

[CaptainMal]

• Just getting up from the ground to get back on this chair. That shoot costs $400???

Spend $500 for ammo, the rifles, transportation, equipment, lodging and normal expenses could make that shoot a weak (spelling correct) vacation that costs way over $2,000. Then you get to literally wallow in the mud and sit out in the rain.

Unless you are in the business to promote it, participation means you need serious psychological help.

Tell me that figure is not correct.

 

[fbraun]

• Just getting up from the ground to get back on this chair. That shoot costs $400???

Spend $500 for ammo, the rifles, transportation, equipment, lodging and normal expenses could make that shoot a weak (spelling correct) vacation that costs way over $2,000. Then you get to literally wallow in the mud and sit out in the rain.

Unless you are in the business to promote it, participation means you need serious psychological help.

Tell me that figure is not correct.

You are correct. I forgot about the rest of the expenses. Actually mine was closer to $2,500 because I flew up from Florida.

I also forgot to mention in my earlier post about problem #4:

4. Squading: I have no idea as to how we were squaded but it made no sense at all. It was more like pot luck. I don't think I shot on the same relay with my equals score-wise at all.
Fritz

 

[Immike]

• Just getting up from the ground to get back on this chair.

Unless you are in the business to promote it, participation means you need serious psychological help.

This is so funny and sad! You don't even want to know what international shooting costs!! I haven't done any but hear much worse numbers like 10x. This is why the match needs to move around the country and this new system enables that. I'm still convinced that midrange and long should be seperated so they can grow other clubs and the sport of each. Our guests did well at this match and the worlds should put more in the area next year.

 

[Ned Ludd]

You are correct. I forgot about the rest of the expenses. Actually mine was closer to $2,500 because I flew up from Florida.

I also forgot to mention in my earlier post about problem #4:

4. Squading: I have no idea as to how we were squaded but it made no sense at all. It was more like pot luck. I don't think I shot on the same relay with my equals score-wise at all.
Fritz

This is exactly why using participants as guinea pigs to try out a new system is completely unacceptable. I have no doubt whatsoever that the various weaknesses, bug, and other newly discovered flaws in the e-target system will be worked out over time. However, that should have been done long BEFORE the National Championships.

Here's another tip: there's a major flaw in the use of e-targets that really can't be fixed by doing anything to the system itself, only the way in which it is used. Specifically, such a system will allow ranges like Lodi (that really have far to few firing lanes to ever even be considered for such an event at this point in time) to host competitions the size of the FCNCs as they currently are. The results of a match as important as the FCNCs should never be largely left to the luck of the draw, as they were this time. If you think lane assignment and squadding didn't play a huge part to the detriment of many people's scores this year, think again. Running 6 relays, which was only possible because of the e-target system, is way too many. It takes much too long to complete, virtually guaranteeing people squadded on relays 1/2 would have a significant advantage in at least one match as compared to those squadded on relays 3/4 and 5/6. This is exactly the reason only ranges with enough firing points to complete a day's shooting in no more than 3-4 relays total should ever be considered for FCNCs, regardless of whether or not e-targets are used. The desire to host the FCNCs at different points around the country should be weighed a little more carefully against the actual ability of the host facility to properly carry off the match under conditions that are as fair and even as possible for ALL competitors. 6 relays doesn't even come close to that. If these matches continue to be hosted at ranges with so few firing points due to the use of e-targets, the least that could be done would be to have every single shooter participating to be squadded one time EACH on Relay 1/2, 3/4, and 5/6, regardless of their classification, daily scores, or relative position going into the final day's matches.

 

[bsumoba]

This is exactly why using participants as guinea pigs to try out a new system is completely unacceptable. I have no doubt whatsoever that the various weaknesses, bug, and other newly discovered flaws in the e-target system will be worked out over time. However, that should have been done long BEFORE the National Championships............

To add to your post, If they had 1 or 2 more relays (30-60+ extra shooters), they would be running 7-8 relays. Tack on an additional 90 minutes per relay (minimum). So that is an additional 3 hours to the day if they had 220 shooters or 90 minutes minimum if they had 181+ shooters. If they were getting done at say 3 PM with 6 relays, that means 4:30PM with 7 relays and 6:00PM with 8 relays. It truly is about the number of firing points. That is why venues like Raton and Ben Avery are such good candidates for big events.

 

[Heman]

Realize this is turning into a bitch fest by people who just need something to complain about, but if you were pulling targets at Lodi and shooting 4 relays you would have been getting done at 3pm. People I've talked to who shot there said the e-targets were fine, they liked them, and glad they were used.

 

[Medic505]

This is exactly why using participants as guinea pigs to try out a new system is completely unacceptable. I have no doubt whatsoever that the various weaknesses, bug, and other newly discovered flaws in the e-target system will be worked out over time. However, that should have been done long BEFORE the National Championships.

I didn't take an official survey, but I'd say that most of the shooters that actually showed up and participated in this years FNC's found it to be acceptable.

What I find to be completely unacceptable is the nonparticipants that show up here to bash it. If you have a better plan Greg, by all means implement it. As I see it, if you don't have first hand knowledge, you don't have a dog in the fight.

 

[Dennis]

Steve,
I tried my Amazon Fire 10 for a couple of weeks before the Nats and never could get it to work reliably. A techy type did tell me that certain internal parts do vary on the differing tablets and even within the same brand.

As for mud and rain; I've carried a shower curtain liner in my shooting bag for years just to lay myself and gear down on. If we had covered those areas with sand, it would have had to been removed after the match in order to get the grass to grow.

The whole range was mowed the Thursday prior to the match; except for the bogy areas where the mowers would sink in and refuse to go any further. There were a number of days where it rained just before the match which caused a number of problems to show up. Our section of the state had a abnormally high amount of rain this year and it continued into autum

 

[Dennis]

Before people complain about number of firing points they ought to contact the larger venues and ask them if they are willing and able to host Nationals every year or every other year. Until you've actually hosted one you have no idea of the work involved and the associated costs involved. Since the majority of competitors I met and spoke with were happy with their experiences at Lodi I'll just go with that.