F-Class Nationals Lodi, Wi
- Thread starter B Nettesheim
- Start date
skiutah02
Silver $$ Contributor
I would agree to the premise, however my cell phone service rarely (if ever) worked at the range. Whenever I checked, I had no bars for cell service, and only occasionally did the 911 service indicator light up. I can imagine a future where remote viewers could watch the targets in real time like at the Olympic Trials in CO for air rifle, but without any service could be a ways off. Drew
Who is your provider, Drew? Verizon shows 4G coverage in that area. That doesn't mean it works, but VW coverage maps are generally accurate.
I am surprised that no one has talked about the time issue. Although E-targets do save some time, it still doesn't really allow for shooting a National match in a reasonable amount of time and I do not think any range with less than say 50 targets is capable of running a big match like the Nationals, even with E-targets. If you limit the shooters, then yes it will. I would define reasonable as maybe 7-8 hours. So you start shooting at 8 and finish around 3-4 PM. At Lodi, if they had to run more than 180 competitors, that is 7 relays. That means the match could easily go over 10+ hours to shoot. Just no way around it. Example, for around say 190 shooters, that is 7 relays. So, let's use 33 minutes (30 minutes for sighters and record shots plus 3 for prep) X 21 individual relays is 11.5 hour day minimum. This assumes that all shooters use up the 33 minutes, but I think you have to assume this. So, start at even say 7AM and you would finish at 6PM+. We haven't even factored in down time, time for transitioning shooters, etc. IMO, 30 targets is just not enough for a national match where you are potentially opening it up for up to say 250 shooters.
If you shot the match, I am sure many of us would like to hear your opinions on the time part and whether or not the time to shoot the match in a day was okay, too long, etc. I saw guys taking 2.5-3 hours to shoot their next relay. I would really like to get shooter's opinions on this because I would like to shoot next year's nationals, but to make the trip from CA to WI to have 10-11 hours days, waiting 2.5-3 hours between relays sounds very exhausting.
If you shot the match, I am sure many of us would like to hear your opinions on the time part and whether or not the time to shoot the match in a day was okay, too long, etc. I saw guys taking 2.5-3 hours to shoot their next relay. I would really like to get shooter's opinions on this because I would like to shoot next year's nationals, but to make the trip from CA to WI to have 10-11 hours days, waiting 2.5-3 hours between relays sounds very exhausting.
skiutah02
Silver $$ Contributor
AT&T. I'd be curious as to other's service at the range, but many others that I spoke to reported erratic service. It was a bit like a Faraday Cage in there....
I'm not sure about your objective but your guessing. They infiltrated and it worked... 33 ? The guys that know how to run them know how to get it done on time also.
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11.6.9 Infiltration Squadding—In individual slow fire matches where “infiltration squadding” is allowed, whenever a target becomes vacant the competitor next squadded to fire on that target may take his place on the proper firing point and on command of the Range Officer may commence firing. The Assistant Range Officer in charge of the target concerned will see that no competitor exceeds the time limit. The time each competitor is commanded to commence firing will be noted on his score card, and on the score board if one is used.
My understanding is that some shooters squadded on say 25 were moved to a different target (not 25) to get it done faster. Not sure if that is what the rules allow. If I was relay 6, target 25 I would assume that is where I would be shooting.
My objective is to simply point out that if Lodi were to have 7+ relays, the time could be 11+ hours to shoot a single day. Next year, it could be 210 shooters, who knows. If everyone is okay with that, then fine. If the range is not sufficient to hold a match, then it should not hold the match. I wished Sacramento Valley would hold the Nationals again, but with the new shooting format (20 shots and 30 minutes for record), and the growing sport with potentially 200-250 shooters coming to the event, it would be tough, arguably impossible with the amount of daylight and the need for a lot of patient shooters. That being said, paid pullers could be used rather than E-targets. Saves time on pit changes, same as E-targets. Okay, there is the challenge of finding enough pullers, and it would cost maybe $9-10K for the whole match to pay the pullers, but it would be cheaper than putting $100K in E-targets.
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US Cellular put up the towers in that area. If you have them as a provider, then you have great service. Other providers contract with them, but don't get as good reception. Sprint and ATT are very poor between the high ridges, but work out by the interstate highway.
KWeigel
whunt_64
At&t phone had zero service. I have a iPad with Verizon cell service and this would take 5 minutes to load a web page.
Nobody I know who has any carrier other than US Cellular gets any kind of decent signal when on the WGC grounds. A couple with AT&T had luck a few years ago but I haven't seen them there recently. Sometimes Verizon gives me a bar or two from the 600 & 800 firing lines but only on Extended rather than their system.
Only current path I know of to getting scores out to anyone (other than stat crew) is for one of the stat folks to download final score file(s) and competitors' e-mail addresses to a thumb drive, then list-mail the scores to everyone once they're somewhere a decent signal is available.
I've done this before, as others have here, by taking pics of print-outs then posting them someplace once I'm off site.
I don't know what the SMT back end provides for aggregate score reporting, staff may be transcribing scores manually into the old system AFAIK, since the print-out format hasn't changed.
One note: if a competitor wants a record of their groups & scores produced on the SMT system there you must download them (print to file) while you're within wifi range of the SMT server there, onto a device you can take away with you; it's a closed, un-Internet-connected system presently & for the forseeable future.
Only current path I know of to getting scores out to anyone (other than stat crew) is for one of the stat folks to download final score file(s) and competitors' e-mail addresses to a thumb drive, then list-mail the scores to everyone once they're somewhere a decent signal is available.
I've done this before, as others have here, by taking pics of print-outs then posting them someplace once I'm off site.
I don't know what the SMT back end provides for aggregate score reporting, staff may be transcribing scores manually into the old system AFAIK, since the print-out format hasn't changed.
One note: if a competitor wants a record of their groups & scores produced on the SMT system there you must download them (print to file) while you're within wifi range of the SMT server there, onto a device you can take away with you; it's a closed, un-Internet-connected system presently & for the forseeable future.
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Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
I have Verizon and I had *zero* signal at the range.
B Nettesheim
Gold $$ Contributor
I had almost no service most of the week unless i was in the pits. It was nice to unhook from the outside world for that amount of time. The purpose of being there was to help out and shoot the match, not to be concerned about what is going on outside the grounds!!!!
Sprint was marginal at best. I could obtain a very weak signal out by the 1000yd. line. Just enough to check home now and then. A quick personal observation on the 7sec. delay. IMO it was more like 10 or better as when the 7sec. delay was up, many times I'd watch the " loading" swirl for several seconds. I did have to shoot in the rain and fog on several miserable relays. I tried the "quick shoot" method several times and with the winds...not a great average, maybe 50% on that experiment. Overall pretty descent impression on e-targets, do definitely miss the "interaction" with the spotter. I did notice that on some of my poorer relays shooting, I had many "asterisks" by those pesky 9's and worse. On my better relays no asterisks. Aside from one relay in the rain, velocities were on target and sd's all single digit. Eric in DL
I was very pleased with the way the LR match was run. We were done by 4:15 the first 2 days and by 3pm the last day of the long range. I remember the 2013 NATS at Raton dragging on to 6pm also shooting six relays, with pits. No doubt infiltrating helped along with no pit changes. I also felt safer not being exposed to spotters blowing up in my face while doing pit duty. Bravo, to WGC for putting on a great NATS! Looking forward to comming back next year. Restricting the size of the field is necessary due to the number of firing points. So what? Only shooters who really want to be here go anyway. If you don't like the travel time, wait between relays then just stay home.
Dr. Thomas Anderson
Waynesville, NC
Yes, I got this email from Karin today:
The 2017 FC National Championship dates are:
Mid-Range Practice on Friday, Sept. 22
Saturday and Sunday are Individual matches - Sept. 23,24
Monday is Individual - Sept. 25
Tuesday is Team matches (Long Range Practice after the Team match) - Sept. 26
Wednesday and Thursday are Individual 1000 yd matches - Sept. 27,28
Friday is Team matches - Sept. 29
Saturday is last day of Individual matches - Sept. 30
skiutah02
Silver $$ Contributor
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
All in all, I thought the match went off well. It took some adjustment to say the least to wrap your head, or mine anyway, around the E-targets. I had the pleasure of shooting the 600 yard team match with Skip Barkley, Carl Matthews and Ryan Cokerham. Boy, was I in for an education. Carl, thanks for coaching me the first round. It would have looked really sad without your help. The rest of the week as well. Ryan coached me the second round and I was impressed how fast he picked it up. Great wind calls Ryan, sorry about the vertical. Skip, all I can say is you shot pretty well after I shut up. Lost doesn't even start to describe it. 1000 yard practice went well. Rifle shot tight for 15 shots, sd was good, lets go!
Wednesday morning was a cross of blustery and gloomy. Rain, wind, vertical. Shot on target 6. Has all the possibilities to become a mud hole. Rain more or less held off, I had considerable issues with my tablet losing signal. Not at all blaming my scores on that. I struggled.
Thursday offered up some sunshine. I shot in the indention that is the firing point for target 8. I'm happy it didn't rain, I didn't have a personal flotation device. Very much the rodeo the last match.
Tablets seemed to work better.
Friday morning greeted my little wife and I with a steady drizzle. We slept in, had a great breakfast at Nordskis Nook, road trip to the Wallershime Winery, (Wisconsin countryside is amazing), ate some good food at KD's in Lodi, and drank a couple spotted cows. Carolyn can testify that Sprint isn't much punkin at the range. She did read three good books, so not a total loss. It's nice to have your sponsor attend with you. Thanks for making the road trip, I always shoot better when you're there.
I think the official forecast for Saturday was Dreary. It was all that with rain. I had moved up in the world to target #21! High and dry......for a while. I did get lucky and didn't have to shoot in the rain. Target 9 down was well, as Ubaldino put it, all we need is pigs. The smoke trail from the cannon was truly a grand thing to observe. Not much doubt where the vertical was coming from. I scored Bryan Litz today. Very interesting watching this cat work. I picked up a couple things, and was very impressed with his methodical process.
Having the screenshot of your targets is priceless. Many thanks to Denys Beauchemin and Ray Weaver for hooking me up with that. About halfway through the day Wednesday, had you ask if I would ever return to Lodi to shoot, the answer wouldn't have been too positive. Saturday rolls around and sign me up! Already thinking about it.
Wednesday morning was a cross of blustery and gloomy. Rain, wind, vertical. Shot on target 6. Has all the possibilities to become a mud hole. Rain more or less held off, I had considerable issues with my tablet losing signal. Not at all blaming my scores on that. I struggled.
Thursday offered up some sunshine. I shot in the indention that is the firing point for target 8. I'm happy it didn't rain, I didn't have a personal flotation device. Very much the rodeo the last match.
Tablets seemed to work better.
Friday morning greeted my little wife and I with a steady drizzle. We slept in, had a great breakfast at Nordskis Nook, road trip to the Wallershime Winery, (Wisconsin countryside is amazing), ate some good food at KD's in Lodi, and drank a couple spotted cows. Carolyn can testify that Sprint isn't much punkin at the range. She did read three good books, so not a total loss. It's nice to have your sponsor attend with you. Thanks for making the road trip, I always shoot better when you're there.
I think the official forecast for Saturday was Dreary. It was all that with rain. I had moved up in the world to target #21! High and dry......for a while. I did get lucky and didn't have to shoot in the rain. Target 9 down was well, as Ubaldino put it, all we need is pigs. The smoke trail from the cannon was truly a grand thing to observe. Not much doubt where the vertical was coming from. I scored Bryan Litz today. Very interesting watching this cat work. I picked up a couple things, and was very impressed with his methodical process.
Having the screenshot of your targets is priceless. Many thanks to Denys Beauchemin and Ray Weaver for hooking me up with that. About halfway through the day Wednesday, had you ask if I would ever return to Lodi to shoot, the answer wouldn't have been too positive. Saturday rolls around and sign me up! Already thinking about it.
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