f class loads how good MUST they be?

[Trevor60]

I would like to make sure we are all on the same page. When we talk about small groups from our rifles we are talking vertical grouping. I like the little knot for 5-10 shot groups however the vertical is gun related and the horizontal is human error. I may be a S$$Ty wind caller and have a group 9 inches wide. But as long as the vertical component is .3 MOA at distance (.9" at 300yards) i am content that the gun is up to the task and i will drop fewer points then a gun that is 1/2 MOA. paraphrasing Lbart a rifle that is able to produce smaller MOA mean a bigger target.

Trevor

 

[Lbart]

Steve,
I did not take your comment personally. Perhaps the statement was not written as well as it could have been, but my whole premise is well founded I believe. F-Class is not shot over a sea of flags like BR, the ranges normal have very few flags and uneven terrain. This makes it extremely, if not impossible to catch all the pick-ups, let-offs, angle changes, up and down drafts and temp changes as the bullet travels 5/8th of a mile. To come back to ttfreestyles thread the smaller your groups are the better off you are and they can't be too small. I am still trying to find a one hole 1k rifle/load.

 

[Steve Blair]

I would like to make sure we are all on the same page. When we talk about small groups from our rifles we are talking vertical grouping. I like the little knot for 5-10 shot groups however the vertical is gun related and the horizontal is human error. I may be a S$$Ty wind caller and have a group 9 inches wide. But as long as the vertical component is .3 MOA at distance (.9" at 300yards) i am content that the gun is up to the task and i will drop fewer points then a gun that is 1/2 MOA. paraphrasing Lbart a rifle that is able to produce smaller MOA mean a bigger target.
Trevor

Trevor,

When we have a variable, 10-14 mph headwind at Camp Pendleton, vertical dispersion is not all gun-related. This is a common, late morning or early afternoon condition that we suffer.

 

[Steve Blair]

Steve,
I did not take your comment personally. Perhaps the statement was not written as well as it could have been, but my whole premise is well founded I believe. F-Class is not shot over a sea of flags like BR, the ranges normal have very few flags and uneven terrain. This makes it extremely, if not impossible to catch all the pick-ups, let-offs, angle changes, up and down drafts and temp changes as the bullet travels 5/8th of a mile. To come back to ttfreestyles thread the smaller your groups are the better off you are and they can't be too small. I am still trying to find a one hole 1k rifle/load.

Larry,

We agree on the fundamental points. You and I had several conversations at Phoenix and you were not found wanting. That is why I held a higher standard regarding your statement.

As to groups; smaller is definitely better, regardless the distance.

 

[Lbart]

Trevor,
You are on my page Sir. People are fond of saying that when FC went to the small target we cut the size in half (X ring from 10" to 5", 10 ring from 20" to 10"), but that change made the area covered by the rings 25% of what it was. That made group size and wind doping much more critical to good scores. I test for elevation since the range I test on has no flags. Could I get a load that has bad horizontal? Yes, but I test enough to see that under good conditions.

Steve,
That head wind is one of those conditions that can be invisible on some ranges and not readable. The more terrain features a range has more likely you are to have mystery shots. In many cases this is where local knowledge is very valuable. Some remain a mystery even if you live on the range.

 

[Trevor60]

Trevor,

When we have a variable, 10-14 mph headwind at Camp Pendleton, vertical dispersion is not all gun-related. This is a common, late morning or early afternoon condition that we suffer.

Ah yes the dreaded head wind when that happens and it has (i have just driven 1+ hours to get to my local club) i break out the 22lr and go practice. i try and avoid head or tail wind testing.

Trevor

 

[DBailey]

Hey Larry,

I couldn't agree with your statements anymore than I do.
But didn't you mean the target change gave the rings 75% less area?

 

[Lbart]

Hi David,
I know i m getting old, but I think "that change made the area covered by the rings 25% of what it was. " means the same as your "the target change gave the rings 75% less area".

Will I see you at the SoA?

 

[DBailey]

Oh now I understand. :-[

You'll have to forgive me. English is my second language, East Texan being the first. haha

I'm not going to be able to make the SOA, but I'm looking forward to seeing y'all at Lodi.

 

[ttfreestyle]

ok, info overload lol. so bottom line is never stop trying to make it better.....and shoot shoot shoot.
thanks for all the replys.

 

[Ahhnother8]

do y'all have a set goal you look for before you deem your rifle ready for comp(testing at 600 yards on a calm day)?

Nice and round five shot groups under 1/2" at 100 yards. That's it.

Lane