F-Class hall of fame?

[Erik Cortina]

Erik,

Have you ever shot at the US F-Class National Championship before?

No sir, I haven't, so I would start with 0 points.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Erik,

Have you ever shot at the US F-Class National Championship before?

No sir, I haven't.

I've only shot the past two, so not any significant experience myself...

My changes to your proposal would be something like:

Winner gets 4 points
Daily aggregate winner gets 2 points
Single match winner gets 1 point
NR gets 2 points (if shot at the FCNC)

Something like that. In the FCNC awards today, each daily agg winner wins a gold medal, as does each match winner. Obviously, the daily win is a much greater achievement that winning a single match, and it should be rewarded as such.

Regarding the MidRange, I agree there would need to be some distinction. There is a F-Class National Mid Range Match this year, at Perry. 1st time ever.

Also, keep in mind, before last year 600 was a part of the FCNC. What if the COF was changed back to incorporate the 600, or what of the COF was changed to incorporate a Palma into the FCNC? All of these changes would have to be discussed as the COF is subject to change.

Also, what is your plan to deal with Teams? Team shooting is 25% of the FCNC, so I would think there should be some mention of them as well. Honorable mention or something.

To AZ's comment it might take ten years, maybe.. But for a very good shooter, I doubt it...

 

[Erik Cortina]

Erik,

Have you ever shot at the US F-Class National Championship before?

No sir, I haven't.

I've only shot the past two, so not any significant experience myself...

My changes to your proposal would be something like:

Winner gets 4 points
Daily aggregate winner gets 2 points
Single match winner gets 1 point
NR gets 2 points (if shot at the FCNC)

Something like that. In the FCNC awards today, each daily agg winner wins a gold medal, as does each match winner. Obviously, the daily win is a much greater achievement that winning a single match, and it should be rewarded as such.

Regarding the MidRange, I agree there would need to be some distinction. There is a F-Class National Mid Range Match this year, at Perry. 1st time ever.

Also, keep in mind, before last year 600 was a part of the FCNC. What if the COF was changed back to incorporate the 600, or what of the COF was changed to incorporate a Palma into the FCNC? All of these changes would have to be discussed as the COF is subject to change.

Also, what is your plan to deal with Teams? Team shooting is 25% of the FCNC, so I would think there should be some mention of them as well. Honorable mention or something.

To AZ's comment it might take ten years, maybe.. But for a very good shooter, I doubt it...

Teams is something I have also thought of. However, input like yours is what I'm looking for. I guess the same criteria could still apply for teams.

I think it is a good idea to reward the daily aggregate winners. However, I believe NR should always be 1 point, weather shot at Nationals or not, for ease of keeping track.

I don't know about Midrange distinction. If they happen to incorporate 600 yards back into the Nationals, it would not matter since shooters would still be competing against each other on the same target, so same criteria would still apply.

I did not know they were going to have a midrange match at Perry, however, I believe there should only be one match where you can earn points, and that is the F-Class Nationals due to the fact that it is the only F-Class only match in the Nation.

 

[Shiraz]

And Erik, you thought you would be sorting bullets instead of being glued to the keyboard answering these posts

Another thought that comes to mind for being qualified to be on the HOF to begin with is having achieved High Master in F-Open and Master in F-T/R. Also, I agree a win in the World Championship should mean you are in, but the second and third at the worlds should also count for 5 and 3 points, in my mind. There are many other points, but I need to go sort bullets - hahahahahaha

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Erik - sounds more like what you are proposing is a FCNC HOF, rather than a F-Class HOF. If everything for entry is based on the one match (other than NRs) then it is just a HOF for that one match, really.

Personally, I guess I like the idea of an encompassing F-Class HOF, taking into consideration ones achievements across the board, not just at the FNCN. For example, Shiraz's win at the Berger SW NATIONALS deserves more consideration than a daily aggregate win at the FCNC. Does it rank with Bailey's win at the FCNC, not quite, so less points. It's still a win, at a damn big and difficult match though.

Look at the Pro Football HOF - many people are in that darn well deserve to be, but never played in the Superbowl.

On the point of NRs, thinking about them, that would require some serious discussion. **Disclaimer - this is just what I have heard, I have not been able to confirm!** I have heard that a couple of records have been set at clubs that don't have pits. They take sighters, walk down and look, then come back and fire all 15 or 20 shots in a row, without anyone pulling the target. IMO, that is not in the spirit of F-Class, and should not qualify for a NR. That is truly Belly Benchrest. Maybe that is not happening, but if it is, I struggle with that being a level playing field.

Finally, it's great to hear you guys also sort bullets! I just started doing that after realizing the Hybrids and VLDs are a little different and I should probably keep them separate...

 

[Erik Cortina]

Look at the Pro Football HOF - many people are in that darn well deserve to be, but never played in the Superbowl.

And just like that, there will be shooters in the HOF that have never won a National Championship.

My main idea came from the way NBSA scores their HOF. We might need to make some changes. Maybe Berger Nationals can earn you a point or so, but I still think only winners should get points.

As far as walk and paste National records (which I have also heard of), I agree with you, they should not count because they were not set just like all the others.

 

[Lbart]

For those that don't know this years F-Class Nationals will be the 10th one.
There are 368 individuals entered and the entries are closed.

Larry Bartholome

 

[randy x]

any 200 should get a point

 

[Erik Cortina]

any 200 should get a point

Maybe at 1,000 yards at a registered match, all others are too easy.

 

[LongRanger]

To all those who think Mid-Range is too easy and not worthy of consideration, drag your hummer out to the 300 yard line and beat Shiraz' record of 200 with 26 straight x's. His incredible record has stood the test of time...over 5 years. And you'd discount his NRA gold-bordered National Record Certificate as not worthy of being considered for HOF points?

While 3-5-600 may seem easy, have a try at any of them and run the x count over 15/20.

Which leads to my 2 cents as a 78 year old antique. KISS! ONLY NR's issued by the NRA should qualify toward HOF membership. NOTHING ELSE. As you can already see in these threads, many buckets of worms are already being opened to confuse matters. In other words, if the NRA issues a NR certificate in any category, such as "female 15 shots at 300 150 27x's IT COUNTS. To accumulate more points, that gal will have to shoot a new record at 300 or move on to the 5-6-1000 venues and shoot more NATIONAL records for more HOF points as a female.

For those wanting to set the clock to zero, fine. 1/2 moa is starting to get ho-hum for a lot of shooters. Petition the NRA to reset the target to 1/4 MOA and level the playing field all over again...just like they did after I shot the 150-23x on the old moa target at the 2005 Nationals at ORSA. I expected them to change to 1/4 moa after Danny shot 200-15x 2 days in a row coupla years ago.

Frank B.

 

[Immike]

First I don't think a classification level requirement is a good idea. The point system does not have to be even numbers either just as the total can be set at a higher number to achieve a balance. I think a committee of experienced competitors should make the decisions of what is best for Fclass competitors. Valid proposals would be in writing and reviewed by the committee for consideration.

 

[Steve Blair]

To all those who think Mid-Range is too easy and not worthy of consideration, drag your hummer out to the 300 yard line and beat Shiraz' record of 200 with 26 straight x's. His incredible record has stood the test of time...over 5 years. And you'd discount his NRA gold-bordered National Record Certificate as not worthy of being considered for HOF points?

While 3-5-600 may seem easy, have a try at any of them and run the x count over 15/20.

Which leads to my 2 cents as a 78 year old antique. KISS! ONLY NR's issued by the NRA should qualify toward HOF membership. NOTHING ELSE. As you can already see in these threads, many buckets of worms are already being opened to confuse matters. In other words, if the NRA issues a NR certificate in any category, such as "female 15 shots at 300 150 27x's IT COUNTS. To accumulate more points, that gal will have to shoot a new record at 300 or move on to the 5-6-1000 venues and shoot more NATIONAL records for more HOF points as a female.

For those wanting to set the clock to zero, fine. 1/2 moa is starting to get ho-hum for a lot of shooters. Petition the NRA to reset the target to 1/4 MOA and level the playing field all over again...just like they did after I shot the 150-23x on the old moa target at the 2005 Nationals at ORSA. I expected them to change to 1/4 moa after Danny shot 200-15x 2 days in a row coupla years ago.

Frank B.

[br]
20-shot, 1000 yard cleans are still rare. There were three fired at the Nationals in Raton last September and one at Berger this year. Not surprisingly, Danny fired the one this year. At the 2011 Berger, when Danny shot two 200-15X, they were the only 200's fired. So, if you are trying to make the case that 1000 yard 200's are common, try something else. You're wrong. [br]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The problem with national records is the ranges on which they are shot. My home ranges at Camp Pendleton will almost certainly never see a record set. The conditions are just not conducive. There are ranges in ravines or surrounded by tall forest that barely see a breath of wind. So, you're telling folks that shoot on difficult ranges that they're SOL? A national record is a fine achievement and worthy of recognition. That's why NRA puts names on their web site and mails certificates. It's just not the same as facing 100 other shooters in your division over several days and winning. [br][/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]An illustration of this is the recent Berger SW LR Nationals. Shiraz put on a fine exhibition of how to maintain composure and limit damage over three days of shooting under tough conditions. I scored better on both 1000 yard matches Sunday but that didn't cut it. One good string can set records but does not win tournaments.[/font]

 

[randy x]

1000 yd cleans are rare. Danny Biggs is a hof.

 

[kelbro]

Good idea and good discussion.

There should definitely be multiple paths to HOF.

There are HOF caliber shooters that can't make all of the big events and many HOF caliber shooters do not have access to 1000 yd ranges.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Good idea and good discussion.

There should definitely be multiple paths to HOF.

There are HOF caliber shooters that can't make all of the big events and many HOF caliber shooters do not have access to 1000 yd ranges.

My point about why F-Class Nationals should be the match to count, that way they only have to make one big match per year. And it's 1,000 yards.

However, it might be a good idea to award HOF points to the winners of big matches, such as Berger SW Nationals and SOA.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I will throw in my 2 cents as a very new f-class shooter. IMO most records are shot on days with excellent conditions and are more of a test of equipment and good fortune. Like in benchrest, I think you should look for the agg. The top three places at registered matches should be worth points. The HOF should be very hard to get into, and take years of consistently winning.

 

[Immike]

Good idea and good discussion.

There should definitely be multiple paths to HOF.



However, it might be a good idea to award HOF points to the winners of big matches, such as Berger SW Nationals and SOA.

I agree and there can be with a well thought out point system. Registered match wins can be proportional to attendance and award fractional points to a HOF point.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Good idea and good discussion.

There should definitely be multiple paths to HOF.



However, it might be a good idea to award HOF points to the winners of big matches, such as Berger SW Nationals and SOA.

I agree and there can be with a well thought out point system. Registered match wins can be proportional to attendance and award fractional points to a HOF point.

This would make it too complicated.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I will throw in my 2 cents as a very new f-class shooter. IMO most records are shot on days with excellent conditions and are more of a test of equipment and good fortune. Like in benchrest, I think you should look for the agg. The top three places at registered matches should be worth points. The HOF should be very hard to get into, and take years of consistently winning.

No top three. Earn points only for winning.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I will throw in my 2 cents as a very new f-class shooter. IMO most records are shot on days with excellent conditions and are more of a test of equipment and good fortune. Like in benchrest, I think you should look for the agg. The top three places at registered matches should be worth points. The HOF should be very hard to get into, and take years of consistently winning.

No top three. Earn points only for winning.

Better yet.