F-Class hall of fame?

[Kodiak99317]

Monte, the DCRA has had a HoF for the TR (peeps) side for years www.dcra.ca/fame.php and has started talking about a FClass one too. HoF is not just for BR
I'm in total agreement with this idea, esp. Larry's two honorary HoF top of list people, Farky and JJ, maybe in a Builder's of FClass category

 

[aj300mag]

Then it would be for the younger generation and I would not be in favor of it (or couldn't care less).

This idea is great, but just starting an association, having general meetings and getting organized could take a few years. Then you start at 0? There are guys like Jim Murphy that should be on there, but probably would not be due to the years it would take to accumulate the points and life's priorities (life beyond F-Class).

In that case then go back to when F-Class started. Look at all the Nationals results and add up the points. The big target shooters would also count since they won against shooters shooting at the same target.

Well Erik ole buddy, you know what happens in the military when you raise you hand saying you've got a good idea...

When are you going to get started organizing a F Hall of Fame? ;D

 

[Erik Cortina]

Well, it wasn't my idea, a friend of mine brought it up and I thought it was a great idea. I will probably get serious about it after the Worlds, right now things are a bit busy!

 

[LongRanger]

Very interesting. And probably a mine-field of tough decisions to make for the organizers. Such as, does Any FC National Record count or must they all be in a particular sub-set such as Civilian, or Mid-Range, etc?

I, for instance, am lucky enough to have 10 National Record certificates signed by Edward Lloyd since F Class went to the 1/2 MOA target. 5 are for 1000y and 5 for mid-range. But I got these back in the early, "easy" years before that whipper-snapper Danny Biggs, with proly 5 dozen NR,s, made everybody start shooting "knuckles down" and ate me and everybody else alive.

Looking at where the records are today, it will be much tougher if not impossible to get 10 NR's ....maybe in the Service/Female/Junior categories? Sorry Danny, Jim and Larry, and the rest of you big dogs.... you can't go there.

Frank B.

 

[Denmeade]

It's a great idea but the real question is who would be in the First to be inducted?
Also I was wondering would the Hall of Fame be for only F-Open shooters or would it take all other classes? Such as FT/R?

 

[Raythemanroe]

I think if a guy breaks a record and it stands or holds for a long time he should be in the hall...

 

[Erik Cortina]

It's a great idea but the real question is who would be in the First to be inducted?
Also I was wondering would the Hall of Fame be for only F-Open shooters or would it take all other classes? Such as FT/R?

It would be F-Class Hall of Fame, F-T/R is F-Class.

I agree with Larry B. as who should be the first two inducted.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I think if a guy breaks a record and it stands or holds for a long time he should be in the hall...

I disagree, HOF should be for shooters that have proven to be at the top of their game for an extended period of time, not for someone that shot one great string.

 

[RStewart]

HOF should be for shooters that have proven to be at the top of their game for an extended period of time, not for someone that shot one great string.

Since it's doubtful I'll ever make it, I can be unbiased. I agree with Erik on this. it's your body of work that truly makes you great at any sport, not one match or game, IMHO.
Rick

 

[Hombre0321]

I do already see one problem forming with this idea, same problem usually rears it's ugly head in any endeavor like this one.

Who is going to make the choices about How? Who? And When? To work this will require a board of dedicated members to come up with the first set if criteria to answer those questions. If this is just one or two guys making the decisions it will be a joke from the beginning. The F-Class shooting community should make these decisions, that also creates it's own set of problem's, as trying to get 10 people to agree on anything can sometimes be impossible due to the personalities of those involved.

Its kinda like shooting F-Class in a way. It's always really about the wind. In this it will really be all about the "People" who are chosen to set this up.

I do think this would be a positive thing to have, lot of problems to over come but with the right people it could be done in an objective way. I do feel for any shooter to make the HOF it should be based on his career in shooting, and not just only on a couple of shoots. By that I mean why should the Nationals and the World be the deciding factors? Until the shooters for these two events "Have" to qualify to shoot them they are just another really big shoot? Ought to be more to it than that, some of the best shooters in the country may never have the time or resources to make one of these. Maybe getting into the HOF should be more diversified than basing it just on a couple of shoots.

Time will tell, will it be a few folks dictating the rules of this F-Class HOF? Or will it be more objective than that? Hummmm I guess well see won't we?
Roland

 

[Erik Cortina]

Hombre, I believe points should only count at the F-Class Nationals plus Nationals records. If the best shooters in the world don't attend the Nationals, then that's on them. I believe those shooters would attend the Nationals just for the HOF points.

I don't think second and third place should get any points, only first place on a match and aggregate. This will make the HOF a more exclusive club and more difficult to make it. If we limit it to F-Class Nationals, we don't need to worry about LR and midrange, as Nationals is now all Long Range.

 

[Erik Cortina]

One more consideration. If you win the Worlds, you automatically make the HOF, yes, that easy!

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

One more consideration. If you win the Worlds, you automatically make the HOF, yes, that easy!

You spell Rocky with a Y not ie ;D

 

[Hombre0321]

Eric, Let me preface the coming remarks with this observation. You are to be congratulated for coming up with this idea. You obviously are giving this some thought and that is a good thing. I also would like to see a way to recognize the best of our F-Class shooters and this at least gets that ball rolling.

Now with the above said I find some of your remarks extremely narrow minded. Your comment:

Hombre, I believe points should only count at the F-Class Nationals plus Nationals records. If the best shooters in the world don't attend the Nationals, then that's on them. I believe those shooters would attend the Nationals just for the HOF points.

The "That's on them" comment shows a lack of thought and a tough sh&@ attitude. That for sure isn't needed in this search to reward the best shooters. How to "FIX" that problem is something that a HOF should give great thought to, and not just dismiss it as it wasn't there.

Also the National's are nothing special if you think about it. What sets it aside is the fact that is a large attendance at yet just another F-Class shoot. Granted the better shooters add this to there schedule and try and attend, so there are "SOME" of the finest F-Class shooters there, but never harbor under the illusion that some of the very best are not there.

It shouldn't be "That's On Them" and I could quote a dozen damn good reasons why they may not be able to make it on any given year. "That's On Them" shows exactly what the problems CAN BE with the attitude of those making the decision's. That aloofness of an organization can spell its doom, and render it irrelevant, if it's going to be aloof and irrelevant why bother in the first place?

I also think personally that basing the HOF on just one shoot is kinda of silly. Especially a shoot (like the Nationals) were no shooter has to qualify to get there, and it is just the guys who happen to show up. There also is a huge problem with basing it on the Nationals and thus eliminating the majority of F-Class shooters, that would be all shooters who shoot Mid-Range. Last time I checked Mid-Range was also a part of F-Class shooting, talking about irrelevant, or making them irrelevant as far as the "F-Class Hall Of Fame" is concerned. That is not the way to start this deal, it should be inclusive not exclusive. Enough snobbery in all of the shooting sports now...

Roland

 

[Erik Cortina]

Hombre, so what if there is no pre-qualification for the Nationals, only the Winners will get the points. The guy that just happens to show up will only get HOF points if he wins.

No major F-Class competition has a midrange course of fire , so the HOF should only have shooters that could master F-Class at it's max. I would personally not want the HOF full of guys that only shoot 300 yards.

If you don't think the Nationals should be the match where HOF points are awarded, what other matches should be considered?

 

[Medic505]

Benchrest.

Benchrest has a Hall Of Fame.

I even know a guy that is in the Benchrest Hall Of Fame.

That's about everything I know about benchrest. That said, how does a shooter earn points for the BRHF? I am in no manner suggesting to copy the BRHF, I just wonder how their members qualify.

I can think of many shooters that belong in an F-Class Hall Of Fame. Some of those would qualify not only because they are great competitors, but great people as well.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Nodak7mm]

No major F-Class competition has a midrange course of fire , so the HOF should only have shooters that could master F-Class at it's max. I would personally not want the HOF full of guys that only shoot 300 yards.

Erik, why would you not want to include mid-range, just add the division after it. HOF L/R, HOF M/R.

I would have to side with Roland's statement that the majority of F-Class shooters are Mid Range and this is simply due to available ranges.

I think as F-Class shooters and as respectable members of this forum, we need to be careful not to imply that if you don't shoot LR you don't count or matter...

I certainly don't believe that is your intent or your beliefs, I just happen to read it that way..

Rod

 

[Steve Blair]

There is no comparison between shooting at 600 and 1000 yards. For that matter, there is no comparison between shooting 15 shot and 20 shot matches at 1000. At last year's Nationals, there were twenty 15 shot cleans and three 20 shot cleans. Whether someone has access to a 1000 yard range or not or whether they can make it to the National Championship is not relevant. What is relevant is performance at the Nationals or Worlds when the best available are present, under the same conditions. [br]
I shoot every Mid Range match that I can, even 300 yard walk and paste matches. But, I also don't try to argue that they are equivalent to a 1000 yard match.

 

[Erik Cortina]

No major F-Class competition has a midrange course of fire , so the HOF should only have shooters that could master F-Class at it's max. I would personally not want the HOF full of guys that only shoot 300 yards.

Erik, why would you not want to include mid-range, just add the division after it. HOF L/R, HOF M/R.

I would have to side with Roland's statement that the majority of F-Class shooters are Mid Range and this is simply due to available ranges.

I think as F-Class shooters and as respectable members of this forum, we need to be careful not to imply that if you don't shoot LR you don't count or matter...

I certainly don't believe that is your intent or your beliefs, I just happen to read it that way..

Rod

That is why I suggest points can only be earned at the Nationals. Same match, same conditions, against the best shooters in the Nation... that right there is HOF worthy!

The problem with Midrange is that there is no National midrange Championship where the best can compete against each other. And I'm not implying that if you don't shoot LR you don't matter, all I'm saying is that if you want to be recognized as one of the best shooters in F-Class, you should master the hardest and most demanding match in F-Class, which is 1,000 yards.

 

[Hombre0321]

Eric I will address a couple of your points;

Hombre, so what if there is no pre-qualification for the Nationals, only the Winners will get the points. The guy that just happens to show up will only get HOF points if he wins.

That's fine if you are not interested in having a "TRUE" National Champion or a Hollow HOF. If your interest is in seeing "your" name at the head of some list, a list by the way if shoot the way you propose would mean nothing, then shooting without qualifications would be just the ticket. This "So What" attitude guarantees irrelevancy and gives this so called HOF no credibility what so ever.

No major F-Class competition has a midrange course of fire , so the HOF should only have shooters that could master F-Class at it's max. I would personally not want the HOF full of guys that only shoot 300 yards.

I would agree whole heartily that a HOF full of guys that only shoot 300 yds would not work. However sense the vast majority of "All" F-Class shoots are at 600 yds I see it as very hard to exclude these shooters. I say that by the way as a F-Class shooter who seldom ever shoots Mid-Range I have attended only one in the past 14 months. Just because I don't shoot many Mid-Range match's I see that as no reason to exclude them. Surely in the workings of the Board of the HOF there will be enough input to figure this simple point out.

If you don't think the Nationals should be the match where HOF points are awarded, what other matches should be considered?

No body ever said this was going to be easy, this part of the HOF may just take a little thinking outside the box. How's about a Hall Of Fame shoot held in a central part of the country, with qualifying in some way some how? Without the qualifying and the best shooting against the best it's not really something I would even be interested in.

The HOF should be something special and not just a place to list some names that won another match somewhere. That happens every weekend somewhere. Nope the HOF should be an example of the best. The best shooting head to head using the best equipment and all of there skills against the best, and those best's qualified to gain the right to shoot the match. Then you will have something all shooters would proud of...

Roland