Extractors: Sako vs Mini 16 ?

[Ledd Slinger]

...There is no guaranteed safety measure to be taken with a overload other then not to have one.

Agreed.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

... If you have a 700 with a Sako extractor on hand, push on that extractor hard with your finger. If you push hard enough, it should pop off. Just make sure you do it over a 5 gallon bucket so you don't lose the spring and plunger when they come flying out. How much pressure do you think you can apply with your finger even when pushing as hard as you can? It's nothing compared to a case blowing out.

I do have one and it is a bitch to get off even with the right tools. There is no possible way you could get this off with your fingers.

Push harder

 

[jrm850]

... If you have a 700 with a Sako extractor on hand, push on that extractor hard with your finger. If you push hard enough, it should pop off. Just make sure you do it over a 5 gallon bucket so you don't lose the spring and plunger when they come flying out. How much pressure do you think you can apply with your finger even when pushing as hard as you can? It's nothing compared to a case blowing out.

I do have one and it is a bitch to get off even with the right tools. There is no possible way you could get this off with your fingers.

Push harder

Are you serious guy? Yesterday you were asking how come you couldn't get your $100 scope zeroed and now you are telling me that if I push hard enough by hand that I can remove an extractor that I installed with a cnc mill that I programmed? Your powers of deduction are incredible.

 

[WayneShaw]

I'm not going to get in the middle of this argument, but just want to say, I have three custom benchrest actions made by top action makers in this country that have Sako style extractors. I haven't bought a new custom action in I think 3 years, so all the new custom actions are coming with M16 extractors now?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

... If you have a 700 with a Sako extractor on hand, push on that extractor hard with your finger. If you push hard enough, it should pop off. Just make sure you do it over a 5 gallon bucket so you don't lose the spring and plunger when they come flying out. How much pressure do you think you can apply with your finger even when pushing as hard as you can? It's nothing compared to a case blowing out.

I do have one and it is a bitch to get off even with the right tools. There is no possible way you could get this off with your fingers.

Push harder

Are you serious guy? Yesterday you were asking how come you couldn't get your $100 scope zeroed and now you are telling me that if I push hard enough by hand that I can remove an extractor that I installed with a cnc mill that I programmed? Your powers of deduction are incredible.

You can get it out by hand, but I wouldn't actually suggest trying it. You could damage the plunger. I was just messing with you. Don't get upset.

OFF SUBJECT...
As for the scope base alignment, I was just curious as to how others did it. I'm always in the market for new tips and tricks. That's why I read so much on this forum. Lot of great shooters and extremely knowledgeable gunsmiths. Thanks to DANS40X for the new tip I picked up.

And so what if I have a $100 scope on the rifle. I don't see how the value of the scope has any relevance? I've shot groups under 1/2" at 200 yards with that same scope on another rifle. I have a couple of $1200 scopes as well, but they all have their place.

Anyhow, I'm not here to get in a pissing match. I was just creating conversation to draw out all the info possible for the OP from all of the knowledgeable folks here. I think we've covered it all

 

[L.Sherm]

Eric, I was developing that pee wee before I believe quickload was out there and if it was i was not aware of it and i'm sure not everyone on here has it either. We are all experts in our own mind doesn't mean when we disagree on something we have to bash one another and I think the majority will agree with me on this one.

 

[butchlambert]

... If you have a 700 with a Sako extractor on hand, push on that extractor hard with your finger. If you push hard enough, it should pop off. Just make sure you do it over a 5 gallon bucket so you don't lose the spring and plunger when they come flying out. How much pressure do you think you can apply with your finger even when pushing as hard as you can? It's nothing compared to a case blowing out.

I do have one and it is a bitch to get off even with the right tools. There is no possible way you could get this off with your fingers.

Push harder

Are you serious guy? Yesterday you were asking how come you couldn't get your $100 scope zeroed and now you are telling me that if I push hard enough by hand that I can remove an extractor that I installed with a cnc mill that I programmed? Your powers of deduction are incredible.

What advantage or safety is there over installing them with a manual lathe? As far as Sako using a "Sako" extractor, study their bolt, raceway and direction for gas in their receiver.

 

[jrm850]

What advantage or safety is there over installing them with a manual lathe?

None. The point was that I have a bit of knowledge about this install.

 

[FatBoy]

So, where is this thread going? Are we still discussing the merits of one type of extractor over the other or is this just getting to be argument over why someone shouldn't like what they like?

We all come at this with our own personal experience. Doesn't necessarily make anyone wrong.

Carry on....

 

[butchlambert]

If you go back and read a few of the long threads on the forum, after the first page, all knowledge has been posted. The second page starts all the BS and arguing. Yes, I get sucked in also.

 

[FatBoy]

I do too, and feel somewhat responsible for this going sideways. I was glad hear about some of the Sako issues, And to hear of the m16 extractors. Not many target shooters I know use either. Most of us have winchester~esk or Remington extractors. My Stolle, my FatBoy and my m70 all have the small extractor in the lug. They work. My Accuracy international, hell I don't even remember what it has. It's been so long since I've seen it, but it works. My Barnard has a Winchester style I think, works. I run long range high power loads, which likely aren't much different than LR BR or steel shooters loads, which is to say probably over book charge weight.

This thread has some good info. Not sure how much more there is to say but I'm curious to find out.

On the unsupported bolt face issue, a buddy grabbed the wrong box of ammo for his pre-64 6.5x284. He touched off a 260 round. It blew the floor plate off, bent the claw extractor and sent a tiny piece of metal into his cheek under his eye. The action locked shut, but he got up, wiped his face off and got on with his day. FWIW, that shot came up a 9 at 1000 yards

 

[Dans40X]

Barnard P has a SAKO Style extractor.

for those unfamiliar w/ a Barnard P series action-

A Barnard P series receiver is a 3 Lug FAT BODY BOLT with out raceways,so it is mechanically & physically IMPOSSIBLE to blow an extractor down a raceway or out of the receivers/ejection port.

 

[jrm850]

I apologize to everyone if I turned this into a pissing match, especially Ledd SLinger. My comments were uncalled for. This was not my intention.

I entered the thread because someone was asking for strengths and weaknesses of the two different extractors and I felt like most of the info was one sided towards the M16 variants. I'm not saying the info is wrong either. I feel pretty strongly that we should express our opinions as opinions and facts as facts when someone is asking for help. The biggest fear is for someone new to a very dangerous sport takes opinions, correct or otherwise, and regurgitates them as facts for the next new guy to come along. Some, including many contributors to this thread, have vast experience with the topics and we should all be thankful for the opportunity to learn from them; it wasn't always this easy before the internets. So the question for the asker becomes 'how do I tell the difference between empirically gained knowledge, and someone's opinion that is based on lore when both are presented as facts?'. In this case I thought I was just adding an opinion based on my experience that differed from another and I let my feathers get ruffled when I was told what what my rifle would do by someone who has never laid eyes on it. Again, I apologize for for my comments Ledd Slinger. Totally uncalled for. I like reading what you post and you seem like a nice person.

With that being said I have a simple theory about why Sako extractors have this reputation for being incredibly easy to blow out... the Hole is too big allowing the apex of the round extractor boss to pop over center with much less effort. If this hole has just enough clearance to allow the extractor to snap over the case, there just isn't anyway that it can be removed by hand. During a catastrophic case failure, it's still a Sako extractor, but maybe this helps keep it in place for smaller vents like a popped primer. As far as extraction strength goes, running a simulation with annealed A2 (Used it because I am too lazy to add another material and I thought that an annealed tool steel would be closer to a hardened carbon) it will displace almost .010" with 100lbs of force on the lip so a bit weaker than I expected.

 

[L.Sherm]

Jrm850 well said, i have been reloading for apprx. 30 years and by all means still learn all time. Opinions are opinions everybody is entitled to one whether you agree with it or not. I don"t know for the life of me why some on here just because they have shot BR, reloaded for ever, is a gunsmith or whatever have to bash someone on here. Not all gunsmiths BRshooters, reloaders will agree on how to do things. We have enough enemys with all the antis without fighting amongst ourselves. Just my 2 cents

 

[Dusty Stevens]

What JRM850 says is what i find as well. When i install one you cant pull it out by hand. Thats not saying it wont take much to break that pin that holds it in. Theres where i put the bolt nose recess "ring of steel" to work keeping it in there.

 

[ebb]

I had an over pressure on a 700 years ago. I had bumped the scale without knowing it and was loading more powder than was safe. The case was stuck in the end of the Remington bolt and it ruined the groove that holds the Remington extractor. I had a gunsmith fix the bolt and it has a mini M16 or a Sako extractor now. Ive used it safely for almost 10 years now, but some times worry that it may be an accident looking for a place to happen. I believe that Sako made guns have a piece of metal in place to prevent the extractor from coming down the raceway and hitting the shooter. Is this true? Is there a way to make my Remington safer buy adding some thing to block the raceway. This overpressure that caused this problem was my first and I hope will be my last. Some times the components we use have issues and it is beyond our control, I would like my rifle to be as safe as I can make it.

 

[rmist]

Not to change the way this going... but I do have a sort of related question. With a 700 SA in 223 can you even put the M16 or mini in that bolt? Does it take to much metal away? Or just stick with the Rem style?

 

[Eddie Harren]

"I had a gunsmith fix it. It has a mini m-16 or a Sako extractor now."

Which does it have?

 

[ebb]

That's a good question,how do you tell the difference? I asked for a M16 but got a call back saying it wouldn't work, I don't think there was a mini M16 back then. They removed the broken extractor groove and silver soldered a ring in the bolt and turned it to fit the case head. They never cleaned it up and a few months later the ejector froze up and I had to disassemble it and clean up all the rust from the silver solder flux. If the extractor fails whether its a M16 or a Sako don't they both have the potential to fly down the bolt lug raceway and cause serious injury?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

That's a good question,how do you tell the difference? I asked for a M16 but got a call back saying it wouldn't work, I don't think there was a mini M16 back then. They removed the broken extractor groove and silver soldered a ring in the bolt and turned it to fit the case head. They never cleaned it up and a few months later the ejector froze up and I had to disassemble it and clean up all the rust from the silver solder flux. If the extractor fails whether its a M16 or a Sako don't they both have the potential to fly down the bolt lug raceway and cause serious injury?

You most likely have a Sako. A full M16 is way to big to work on a 223 in a 700 bolt face. Pretty sure a Mini M16 would be too big as well. But don't quote me on the mini...
As far as telling what you have, theres a big difference between a mini M16 and a Sako that is easily identified.

This picture link shows a Sako. Short and no pin holding it in place.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sako+extractor&oq=sako+extractor&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61l3j0l2.5661j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=kv-3IF4ZwqW4YM%253A%3Bundefined%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fgilarivertactical.com%252Fimages%252Fsako.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fgilarivertactical.com%252Fproduct-sako.html%3B505%3B347


This next picture link shows a mini m16. Much longer and has a pin running through the bolt about midway down to hold it in place.
https://www.google.com/search?q=m16+extractor&oq=m16&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0j5.1766j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=zo_wNFF2L4ZBSM%253A%3Bundefined%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi55.tinypic.com%252F126bmea.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforum.accurateshooter.com%252Findex.php%253Ftopic%253D3770378.0%3B654%3B544