ERIK CORTINA - PRIMER TESTING?

[Bill Norris]

Testing is always a sound approach rather than reading someone's opinion and / or experience.

However, with today's prices and availability issues, this may not be practical. I've basically used three brands of primers in the last 50 years, CCI, Remington, and Federal. They all worked fine for me, but I verified this with bench work and in some cases I had to change the powder charge, but I never had to change the powder or bullet.

I believe the more important issue is whatever primer you select, stay with it. Develop your load data with that primer. If some reason you have to change primers, do some load development to establish the optimum powder charge with that powder and that bullets with the new primer.

As I have said in previous posts, the most significant component that I have found affecting accuracy is the bullet assuming you select a powder that is suitable for the cartridge you are loading for. In my experience, if a bullet shoots well out of a given rifle, it will shoot well with other similar powders and primers. Some adjustment may be needed in powder charge, but it will shoot well.

Unless you like testing and spending hours at the bench doing so, I would establish a standard that you feel you need for the application you intend to use the rifle for. For example, for my varmint rifles, my standard is 1/2 moa which works for the distances that I shoot. Once I hit that standard with a load and verify that load's consistency, I'm done testing.

Agree.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Unless you are getting the yellow box primers "you might as well not even show up".

 

[Bill Norris]

Looking back at one of the very few and limited primer test I have done was with my BR 30BR with my go to load in which I don't see much difference in.

118 gr. Bibs 34.2 gr. H-4198
FED 205M 5-SHOT GROUP @ 100 yds. .174 M V 3043 S D 6.24 E S 12 05/07/22 80 deg.
CCI BR-4 5-SHOT GROUP @ 100 yds. .107 M V 3041 S D 7.59 E S 17 05/07/22 80 deg.

 

[BartsBullets]

But that defies the whole concept of only changing one thing at the time.

Well… not if you change the primer and run the same series of powder charges.

 

[jackieschmidt]

While it will very some from barrel/receiver construction at around 70KSI rifles will begin to experience heavy bolt lift. That was based on some work done at Livermore Labs (Lawerence Livermore Labs).

I have always felt that we owe the upper load window performance of the 6PPC in he Competitive Arena to two major items.
The excellent custom actions that are manufactured from the finest materials while being held to close tolerances, and the Lapua 220 Russian case.

 

[JimSC]

I have always started with the primer and bullet length as constants the varied the powder charge to get and idea of velocity and pressure. Then varied the seating depth in or out keeping magazine length in mind if that is an issue. Once I get the best groups I keep the BTO length and charge as a constant then switched out primers if possible to see which was optimum. I suppose you could do the primer swapping first and leave BTO and powder charge fixed then vary the other two and it would make no difference. Six of one half dozen of the other I suppose.

There is a lot of good info out there but it can get confusing

 

[Straightshooter1]

Great episode, care less about the first 25 minutes and science of OBT, way too smart for me lol.

On the other hand, I liked the first part regarding OBT and what Chris was actually addressing, which as it turned out was different from the "bending" harmonics I thought he was addressing. My mind is still trying to process what he was saying about the expansion and contraction of the barrel and it's travel along the barrel. For the rest of the video, I would have liked to hear more from Chris Long and less from Erik Cortina (not that I don't like Erik).

 

[markm87]

Unless you like testing and spending hours at the bench doing so, I would establish a standard that you feel you need for the application you intend to use the rifle for. For example, for my varmint rifles, my standard is 1/2 moa which works for the distances that I shoot. Once I hit that standard with a load and verify that load's consistency, I'm done testing.

Absolutely. I want to shoot! Not Test. I have however dug my heels in from time to time and tortured myself. Trying to get the new CCI 41s to do anything good for example.

 

[5spd]

It's funny how " experts" say you've been doing it wrong all your life, BUT fail to even state the so called correct way....geeeze

 

[Straightshooter1]

It's funny how " experts" say you've been doing it wrong all your life, BUT fail to even state the so called correct way....geeeze

In this case, the correct way was mentioned, though not dwelled on; like having to do a whole load test with everything the same except for changing the primer, that the change in primer changes the whole burn rate of the powder ignition.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Primers move the node. So you have to shoot groups at multiple charges with each primer to make sure you cover the node. Your not looking for the smallest group your looking for the primer that shoots the best out of tune.

 

[LCazador]

Many shooters push a 68 grn bullet 3400 to 3450 fps out of a case that has around 32 grns of capacity. Some even dabble at 3500+ fps.

A number of years ago, a notable shooter did some strain gage tests on various upper end 6PPC loads, and came up with (around), 70,000 psi.

Jackie I agree. My PPC brass is too precious. I'm fortunate to still be shooting gold box brass. I still think it's the best Lapua made. I'm shooting a 68 grain BT and I'm happy with 3300fps! It works for me!

 

[savageshooter86]

Believe in one of his videos or posts a while back he states to test them across powder charges and seating. Basically do load work up with one primer and see the results and how consistent. Then do load work with a different primer. See how consistent it is across load work. Then after you test a few pick the one that is most consistent over the board of load work up.

 

[DLT]

Honestly, my assessment of him is he spends most of his time psyching out everyone around him. I know for years it was kind of the central theme of his videos to basically say if you're not doing it the way I'm doing it you might as well not even show up. That was kind of his mantra.

And then when he made that video about psyching out that 15-year-old girl so he could beat her (when she was beating him) I basically lost all use for that man. It's like he was bragging about messing with a 15-year-old girl. I just thought it was disgusting. Apparently, I was the only one. People seem to love that guy.

I believe in the Video Erik had with speedy about how to find the lands he caught Erik in a tall tale. I lost a little respect for the man after that. I believe he enjoys throwing things out there to see what people will nibble on

 

[JB10]

A couple years back i was shooting a 223 at 300 yards. This rifle is very accurate. I was hitting dead center at my target ( was a steel plate) i grabbed a round out of a different box. It hit about 4 inches right. I shot another and same thing, to the right. It puzzled me to begin with why it shifted when was exact same load. I had loaded some with 205 primers. My normal load was always with 7 1/5 primers. So i chronograph them. The 205 primer load was 30fps slower. Both loads were same accuracy but shifter poi.

 

[Ray123]

So just load it and shoot it yourself group size and S/D with your load..which already will contain many micro variables...but for your lot of primers, bullets, brass, and powder...You'll know which is the best or if there is much difference in your primer selection, for your load.
No use going into the weeds... into the nanotechnology and bore getting larger in diameter during the shock wave of firing the rifle, etc I can appreciate the science and effort....BUT... your primer is a variable mixture, as is your blended powder, variations in case volume, and all those bullet dimensional variations...all the slight variables and imperfections that can not be controlled by the shooter...every loaded round is different no matter how close you measured... then there is the shooter who is just another variable.
They say that 2 nano "entangled" particles can communicate across vast distances, even millions of light years ...instantly. But it won't help my shooting hobby...I don't think..unless the target and bullet can be "entangled" somehow..and come together...but then you wouldn't need a shooter...as the target and bullet "do their own thing"...

 

[big5ifty]

I believe in the Video Erik had with speedy about how to find the lands he caught Erik in a tall tale.

I realized some time ago that even though pro shooters share some useful information, they sometimes give advice based on incorrect premise.

 

[Fuj]

From my own personal experience since the primer shortage.....
My main primer for many years is the Winchester LRP. I actually
switched a few years back too the CCI BR2's when Winchesters
were hard to find. I lost a good 20 ft. per second with the CCI's.
Being a wild catter, I may fire form more brass then most. Primer
wise for that, it's the cheap mil stuff I can find. That supply dried up,
And was extremely lucky to find a brick of Federal Champions for
$85 bucks local. Besides loading my fire forming cases, I loaded 5
match case loads to test the Feds. Interesting findings......

WLRP........2830 fps and the high node.

BR2's.........2810 fps and more of a scatter node

Fed-CH.....2785 fps and hitting a lower node.

I alway's thought that the WLRP's were the best for ball powders
since they shot hotter like a magnum primer. On paper and in the
upper node, the target showed no difference between the BR2's
and the WLR's. SD's were only a point and a half off favoring the
BR2's.

 

[AckleymanII]

Steve Chernicky took pictures of various primers going off, posted the pictures in Precision Shooting Magazine years ago. The pictures were amazing, showing incredible differences in various primers ignition characteristics.

 

[Mulligan]

I believe in the Video Erik had with speedy about how to find the lands he caught Erik in a tall tale. I lost a little respect for the man after that. I believe he enjoys throwing things out there to see what people will nibble on

At least he published it to the web. That takes courage.......... Erick thought he was jumping and he was jamming........ I laughed my butt off. In the end, I actually have more respect for him because he posted the video.

It does make sense now why Erick screams and shouts "quit chasing the lands", hell, he hasn't found them yet.

CW