ERIK CORTINA - PRIMER TESTING?

[Fuj]

Maybe Lauri will chime in. He did extensive, in depth testing a few
years back. Here's a test page result on LRP's from around 2015 done
by Lauri Holland.

 

[Bob3700]

Anyone research the primer testing that German Salazar did in Precision Shooting years ago?
it was more oriented toward the strength of the primers, how much pressure n brizinance (sp) they produced. The primers that were most popular in competition were usually the “softer” ones as they ignited the powder with less violence.
he was not testing for a specific load for accuracy, just looking at the primers strength and it’s correlation to accuracy.

 

[SeabeeKen]

But that defies the whole concept of only changing one thing at the time.

Not really. I did it with cci and ginex with all else the same and the results were impressive. Made a believer out of me concerning primers

 

[dcali]

You test primers the same way you test anything else. You just try them. What you might find is that primers and powder are related and not truly independent. So one powder charge might with best with primer A while another with primer B. Primers control ignition, and different powders require different ignition characteristics.

Personally, I have not seen minor charge weight differences alter primer choice, and I can almost always dial in a load to suit whatever primer I’m using. In my experience either the primer is suitable or it’s not, and you can usually just go with what everyone else is using for your chambering/powder. Mileage may vary.

 

[dcali]

Anyone research the primer testing that German Salazar did in Precision Shooting years ago?
it was more oriented toward the strength of the primers, how much pressure n brizinance (sp) they produced. The primers that were most popular in competition were usually the “softer” ones as they ignited the powder with less violence.
he was not testing for a specific load for accuracy, just looking at the primers strength and it’s correlation to accuracy.

It was interesting, but incomplete. The trouble is that a very large percentage of primer energy isn’t going to show up visually, so you are only seeing a small part of the story.

There are better ways to test primers, but they’re pretty involved and the best ways require knowledge of the primer chemistry, which is generally not publicly available.

 

[Larryh128]

It was interesting, but incomplete. The trouble is that a very large percentage of primer energy isn’t going to show up visually, so you are only seeing a small part of the story.

There are better ways to test primers, but they’re pretty involved and the best ways require knowledge of the primer chemistry, which is generally not publicly available.

Years back someone did a high speed photo segment on a bunch of different primers being fired and some were fairly anemic, some blew red projectiles everywhere with great force, and one created a round blue ball of flame. Everything but that primer was throwing red projectiles, the blue ball was a CCI. That forever made up my mind and I've used them since. The key is and always will be consistent ignition, without that forget about ES/SD.

 

[markm87]

This topic is REALLY good food for thought. I've done a ton of primer comparisons by only direct swap outs.

Primers definitely have a massive impact on the burn and velocities, SDs, etc.

 

[Texas Solo]

The whole issue of primer testing is moot because you have to use whatever primers you can get ahold of.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Did a 5 round test on my .284 load .
Only Changed Primers on my given load .
Old White Box LR , Wolf ,Talua , 210M, BR2

All Different Primers showed Velocity Changs !
I took from this Test I could Tune my load with any of the Primers I have .
Note 210M gave the highest Velocity Change

 

[markm87]

The whole issue of primer testing is moot because you have to use whatever primers you can get ahold of.

If I didn't already have a cabinet full of components, I honestly would just shoot WAY less right now.

Paying panic prices and not getting exactly what I want isn't worth the time and effort of case prep and loading.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I'm waiting for Eric to make the "your doing it right" video.

 

[quest450]

I'm waiting for Eric to make the "your doing it right" video.

ain't gonna happen, I think he likes stirring the pot a little bit and eff with ppl heads

 

[urbanrifleman]

ain't gonna happen, I think he likes stirring the pot a little bit and eff with ppl heads

Honestly, my assessment of him is he spends most of his time psyching out everyone around him. I know for years it was kind of the central theme of his videos to basically say if you're not doing it the way I'm doing it you might as well not even show up. That was kind of his mantra.

And then when he made that video about psyching out that 15-year-old girl so he could beat her (when she was beating him) I basically lost all use for that man. It's like he was bragging about messing with a 15-year-old girl. I just thought it was disgusting. Apparently, I was the only one. People seem to love that guy.

 

[quest450]

don't like his videos, barely made it thru interview with Bart because I wanted to hear what Bart has to say NOT Cortina

 

[LCazador]

I just did a test this week testing a new lot of N133 powder. I found a node that worked well but not completely happy with groups, I tried a primer test between Remington 6 1/2, Federal 205M, and CCI 450. One of those three primer brands has always worked for me. When I've replaced barrels and or chambers, harmonics or whatever changed and I've always had to start out with a full test of primers, powder charges, powder, and seating depths to make it all work. Like Eric says don't leave anything on the table, nothing is for sure. I've got the good fortune of a well stocked reloading room but I can see that in today's world that may not be possible.

 

[Bill Norris]

From reading everything written here I suppose one could summarize then that if the load is good don't fool with swapping or testing primers. Honestly, with the market being what it is with components I do not feel it is something I will follow up on. If I find a load for either of my rifles that is all that important that I simply cannot reach my goal of 1/4 inch with 3, 5, or even 10 shot groups @ 100 yds. that will repeat then I may be forced to test primers. Otherwise I'm out.

 

[jackieschmidt]

For those not familiar with the PPC, what ballpark pressure is that?

Many shooters push a 68 grn bullet 3400 to 3450 fps out of a case that has around 32 grns of capacity. Some even dabble at 3500+ fps.

A number of years ago, a notable shooter did some strain gage tests on various upper end 6PPC loads, and came up with (around), 70,000 psi.

 

[Doom]

And Eric is 100% correct on this. I haven't seen the video yet, but I suspect it won't be seeing which primer gives best accuracy with a certain powder load which likely won't be in the harmonic's node with some primers..

I haven't seen the video yet but he is correct, as much as I hate to admit it. Changing the primer without changing powder load does in fact change not only the primer but the pressure curve, possible lock time, peak pressure of the round. The cartridge itself, including the primer, case, bullet powder form a system. The correct way to test primers is to determine a suitable load for each primer and then compare the differences.

 

[K22]

Testing is always a sound approach rather than reading someone's opinion and / or experience.

However, with today's prices and availability issues, this may not be practical. I've basically used three brands of primers in the last 50 years, CCI, Remington, and Federal. They all worked fine for me, but I verified this with bench work and in some cases I had to change the powder charge, but I never had to change the powder or bullet.

I believe the more important issue is whatever primer you select, stay with it. Develop your load data with that primer. If some reason you have to change primers, do some load development to establish the optimum powder charge with that powder and that bullets with the new primer.

As I have said in previous posts, the most significant component that I have found affecting accuracy is the bullet assuming you select a powder that is suitable for the cartridge you are loading for. In my experience, if a bullet shoots well out of a given rifle, it will shoot well with other similar powders and primers. Some adjustment may be needed in powder charge, but it will shoot well.

Unless you like testing and spending hours at the bench doing so, I would establish a standard that you feel you need for the application you intend to use the rifle for. For example, for my varmint rifles, my standard is 1/2 moa which works for the distances that I shoot. Once I hit that standard with a load and verify that load's consistency, I'm done testing.

 

[Doom]

Many shooters push a 68 grn bullet 3400 to 3450 fps out of a case that has around 32 grns of capacity. Some even dabble at 3500+ fps.

A number of years ago, a notable shooter did some strain gage tests on various upper end 6PPC loads, and came up with (around), 70,000 psi.

While it will very some from barrel/receiver construction at around 70KSI rifles will begin to experience heavy bolt lift. That was based on some work done at Livermore Labs (Lawerence Livermore Labs).