Electronic Targets

[LeoHuhta]

Gang
Trying to do some research for our club on electronic targets.
Our KD range is 25 points wide and a full 600 Yrds.
Any opions or experiences out there that can be shared?
Leo

 

[Erud]

Hey Leo,
I sent you an email about this, but not 100% sure if I have the right address for you. Let me know if you get it.

Erik

 

[spclark]

Where's your range & what's your budget?

Erud's likely telling you about the range at Minneapolis, has "ET's" that have been in operation for a few years now. I have yet to shoot there but expect to soon.

There's a long range match scheduled in Georgia weekend after next:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3855688.0

- that's set up to shoot entirely on the Silver Mountain target system. Reports from that are going to get some serious interest as ET's are the future of competitive shooting yet their relative scarcity in this country leaves folks with a lot of questions.

 

[LeoHuhta]

Erik
I have two you can use
My personal email
Huhtal@centurylink.net
Work
Lhuhta@rtiintl. Com

Just starting to see what works and doesn't
Had a nice conversation with the competitive office at NRA
I think I talked to Dennis, my notes are at work so I don't have anything to share.
Any advice will help with our decision.
Thanks
Leo

 

[LeoHuhta]

Spclark

We are located 30 miles NW of Minneapolis.
I'm speaking for our club as asst KD activity chair.
We want to find out how much of a budget is needed for an adventure like this.
We are not sure if it makes sence or not.
It's a process in my eyes that we need to go through to determine if we should consider this major step.
I'm looking for as much help in this task as I can get.
Contacts
Etc
Thanks for the reply
Leo

 

[BradY]

Here in Aus we use Kongsberg Electronic Targets for shooting out to 1000yds. However there are many factors involved in maintaining competition accuracy of the targets at that range. At 600yds there is no issue, provided they are maintained well.

 

[RDavies]

There would be a few dozen ranges (anyone here know the number) in Australia with electronic targets. A fair few of them use the Konsbergs, while there are a lot of locally made electronic targets which are becoming more popular and have extra features.
I will see if I can find links to the various manufacturers.

 

[Erud]

Ok, I re-sent the email. Not sure where I got the address I had for you...

 

[Tempest]

I've shot on the Kongsberg targets and they are very nice.

 

[daniel.chisholm]

There would be a few dozen ranges (anyone here know the number) in Australia with electronic targets. A fair few of them use the Konsbergs, while there are a lot of locally made electronic targets which are becoming more popular and have extra features.
I will see if I can find links to the various manufacturers.

I understand that there are approx 120 Kongsberg e-targets in Australia (this would suggest somewhere between 15-40 installation sites). In Australia Kongsberg is the e-target vendor that have been around the longest and have the largest installed base of e-targets. There are two relatively new Australian companies making e-targets (Hex Systems, and OzScore), who currently have excellent e-target systems on the market. There is a third guy in Australia (Rod Gray?) who has designed and built an e-target system, I don't know if his system is on the market or not. My company's (Silver Mountain Targets) presence in Australia is relatively new but we now have an Australia dealer and a few customers too.

Googling on the company names ought to find you the companies websites or dealers.

 

[effendude]

I will add to Leo's challenge researching these targets is that we are in the frozen wasteland of central MN, about 15 miles from the Mpls Rifle Club. We can experience highs of 100* in the summer and -40* in the winter. Whatever we decide to install must have some sort of a track record in those temperatures.

As a side concern, how does the NRA handle electronic targets for MR matches?
Will the recognize national records recorded off electronic target systems if they are used at registered or state championship matches? 3 national F-class records were set by shooters at Elk River, MN this summer at 600 yards. 200-19x F-open civilian, 200-16x f-open woman, and a Jr. F-TR record that escapes my memory at the moment. I would be a waste to invest in the targets if the NRA won't recognize scores from them.
Scott

 

[Rightsightguy]

This is the NRA rule now.
I think they will upgrade it soon.

10.17 Electronic Scoring Targets—Electronic scoring targets are authorized for all events. When electronic scoring targets are used, targets must be checked for functioning and accuracy under the supervision of the Match Director

 

[gmitchell]

How much would the E targets cost for a 20 bench 1000 yard range?

Gordy

 

[daniel.chisholm]

How much would the E targets cost for a 20 bench 1000 yard range?

Gordy

This is *NOT* a price quote, but if you are curious about ballpark pricing, figure on about $7500 per lane for a conventional chamber target system in which the e-target supplier supplies an outdoor high brightness monitor (e.g. Kongsberg, OzScore). For an open-sensor target system in which the shooters supply their own viewing devices (cellphone, tablet, e-reader, laptop etc) figure on $3500 per lane.

Note that just because you might have a 20-target range does not mean that you need to put electronic targets on all 20 lanes, even if once a year you run a big event that uses all targets. What usually makes sense is to buy enough electronic targets for your average/typical usage.

Also, the throughput on electronic targets tends to be higher than manually marked targets. It depends on how you organize your match in response to the faster per-shot marking and the elimination of range downtime for pit changes, but in many cases two electronic targets would handle the same number of shooters in a day that three manually marked targets would.

To decide whether or not your range can afford electronic targets, here's one way you can approach it:

- choose a sensible (business-like) period of time over which the e-targets must pay for themselves. Ideally three years is a nice quick payback. You can stretch it to five years, but it's usually not financially sensible to go beyond a five-year payback
- divide the purchase price of the e-target system by the number of years over which it needs to pay for itself (for example if you are buying a system that costs $3500 per lane and you want it to pay for itself in three years, then each year each lane of your e-target must earn you $1167.
- divide this annual payoff amount by the number of days per year of real revenue-making use your e-target will get. For example if you conduct 20 days of matches over the course of a year, your e-target will cost you $58 per day
- divide this daily cost of your e-target by the number of shooters it is going to serve each day. For example if you run your manually marked matches with four relays, you might run an e-target match with six relays. Allowing for not every relay being full it might be wise to plan for only five "paying" shooters per day on average, so that is $11.70 per shooter per day.
- Now figure out if you can afford this or not. Can you raise your match fees by $12 and have your shooters thank you for it or hate you for it? Or can you find some of that $12 already available in your match fee structure? While there is no getting around that it will cost you and your shooters (say) $12/day more, it also means your matches run faster and no one has to pull targets - is this a good deal to your shooters, or not?

 

[spclark]

Spclark

We are located 30 miles NW of Minneapolis.

Now that I live in Wisconsin I added North Star (Red Wing MN) and Gopher (Harris MN) to my 'life list' of ranges this year, expect to add Minneapolis soon.

So there's another range within a half-hour of those last two? The venue strictly BR or are sling-shooters welcome?

Please direct me to this club's website so I can stop asking questions....

 

[LeoHuhta]

SpClark
The clubs web site is
ERSportsman.com
We are located about 3 miles NW of Elk River
I think the web site also shows a map
We have a nice 600 yrd range
25 points wide
We shoot "F" class Monday nights
Highpower Tuesday nights
Feel free to contact me with any questions.
Leo

 

[gmitchell]

Are there systems out there that are compatible with 600 and 1000 yard BR registered targets or is it all f-class and high power?

Gordy

 

[Bindi2]

I look at the cost from another angle. When you upgrade the firing points the pits or the club house do you charge the shooters more to use the range. We don't we put in four ETs and our membership has increased the older shooters have stayed on because they don't have to pull targets. Four ETs comfortly handle 4 ranges with 10 shooters each in a day 480 shots on each. Maintenance must be kept up very regularly. F/C more so than TR
Our range is not a commercial venture ( club owned) but we cover operating costs and turn a profit for future improvements to attract more shooters. ETs have stopped a down turn in shooters as far as we are concerned. Family shooting has also increased.

 

[daniel.chisholm]

... compatible with 600 and 1000 yard BR registered targets...?

Gordy

Gordy the target faces are programmable, so that should be pretty straightforward

 

[Coolhand]

My Club along with several others approached our state government for a sporting grant the result of which has allowed the 4 clubs to purchase 12 Hexta E Target systems. The grant was $100,000.00 AUD. Each club had to contribute a certain amount of cash to make up the short fall, from memory all up the 12 targets and all associated monitors servers etc came to about $161,000.00.
The Hexta people conducted the first of two training modules last week and all club members were required to attend before being eligible to shoot on E Targets.
Not a simple matter of turning up to shoot, there is quite a bit of technical stuff to digest and I can see that some non computer people may struggle initially with the system. Personally , I will have to ensure to take my spectacles to the mound to see the shot monitor , a minor irritant not insurmountable but a pain in the fundamental nonetheless, taking glasses off and putting them back on again.
The Hexta system has a website and anyone can log on anywhere in the world and view the shooters scores which are uploaded to the web site.

The Hexta system has a separate server which has a wireless range of several hundred meters and will allow spectators to log in through an app and watch the shoot via their smart phones. Also when in the shooting position a competitor can scroll through the all the targets in use to view another shooters progress. I have not shot on the targets as yet but look forward to it. The Club no longer has to pay markers and there will be a cost benefit eventually. During the training module it was stressed that target maintenance is critical and we have designated several club members with the appropriate skills to oversee this. Its beneficial to have club members that are computer savvy and also tradesmen, electricians for example, to handle the hardware.

regards
Mike.

BTW . our targets are ICFRA Fullbore Target Rifle but locally we shoot from 300 yards to 1000 not just the Palma Ranges of 800/900 & 1000 yards.