Electronic Targets the End of F Class?

[1KBR]

It DOES MATTER when the changes are forced on shooters without their input or consent. It DOES MATTER when it changes the sport into something different than what it was. It DOES MATTER when it allows ranges with an insufficient number firing points to hold high level competitions with very large numbers of contestants, leading to ridiculously long days, and situations where it is NOT THE SAME for everyone. It DOES MATTER when the systems can cost as much as $10,000.00 per firing lane to "fix" something that wasn't broken to begin with. It DOES MATTER if you're the poor schlepp whose target system dies dies at a critical point, causing you to lose the match. It DOES MATTER to people that drive hundreds of miles and spend significant time and $$$ to attend a match where there is a glitch in the system.

The list goes on.

Worse still is the slightly bad target. With the target which goes completely kaput, you at least pack up your gear and make the long drive home. It is worse if you are stuck on a slightly bad target where everyones groups are just not what they are on other targets. You end up chasing loads and seating depths all day, burning through barrels and bullets, when in fact it was the target which was inaccurate, not the gun or shooter.

 

[Macropod]

So someone wants to fire a string as quickly as possible before a condition change. That strategy works mostly only for those who aren't that proficient in wind reading, invariably they generally get caught on a condition change. We shoot on electronic targets and on our range, conditions change in seconds resulting in the necessity of holding off left, right, up and down. It has been an argument running in Australian F class for a while but I think it was generally agreed that no delays were really necessary.

I have seen the rapid fire strategy burn points countless times and a number of times it worked. Hard on barrels too. Far better to read the conditions and compensate. Far more satisfying to shoot a possible when every shot you have to work for too. Still, it is nice to have the option.

 

[Kings X]

I think just the opposite.
Ranges that now only have berms can just add e-target holders. Any old Silhouette range should be able to stretch to 600 yards.
With just three targets they could hold shoots. A three target setup won't break the bank as much a pits. As the money grows - so could the number of targets.

 

[Zilla]

In my opinion, if there is no delay, it isn't F-Class.

 

[Lbart]

The only problem I have with ET's is that there is no tangible target record of the shoot.
We love bragging and posting pics of those little groups at longer ranges. A pic of a screenshot might not feel the same.

Zero333,
if you go to this link http://www.silvermountaintargets.com/2016-us-fcnc.html you can see where every shot in the 2016 USA FCN's went long with an enormous amount of other useful data for every shooter. You have to use the orange links to find the shooters #, etc. Hopefully SMT will keep this data sharing up this year.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I would only add to David's comment that the delay should:

a) affect when you can fire the next shot for record (not just delay the target/shot image)

b) be a reasonable time period; 7 s would be about the best average pit service on the planet (except for when Matt Schwartzkopf is pulling your target ), not what you might routinely get. IMO - 10 s would be closer to reality.

 

[SDDasher]

Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard something new in the shooting sports was going to be the ultimate demise of the sport; yet here we are still shooting. Chill, it will work itself out as long as shooters have input for the solution.

 

[338 Mollett]

I think this turns F Class into an equipment race.

It has always been that.

 

[ShootDots]

Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard something new in the shooting sports was going to be the ultimate demise of the sport; yet here we are still shooting. Chill, it will work itself out as long as shooters have input for the solution.

You are right Wes>>>with a caveat! Your words "as long as shooters have input for the solution". These are the MOST important words in either finding a solution or creating a headache! Let's hope for the former and not the latter!

 

[JohnKielly]

The only problem I have with ET's is that there is no tangible target record

Like this, from our Hexta system in Brisbane, Australia:

 

[500Stroker]

Recently shot the F Class match at Talladega AL. Near by, some of the shooters were able to shoot their 20 shot for record strings in amazingly short time periods. I heard one competitor state that he was able to shoot all 20 shots in two minutes 19 seconds at 600 yards.

Basically he used his sighting in period to get in the ten ring, and then having established his point of impact, he fired as quickly as possible to place all shots downrange before the wind changed.

I think this turns F Class into an equipment race. While there is always the chance the wind will change, but overall, I think this an effective strategy, that is, shoot as fast as possible before the wind changes. Electronic targets eliminate the time delay that comes from normal target pulling. Results are instantly displayed.

F Class might as well allow magazine fed semi automatic, fully automatic, or belt fed automatic rifles.

Small Bore prone banned the use of magazines shortly after WW2, competitors were using their magazine fed rifles to shoot as quickly as possible before the wind changed. This was disallowed, rules were changed so competitors had to fire single shot, and the rifles are manually operated, no semi auto's allowed. Given that a small bore prone shooter is in a sling, you cannot fire as quickly when the rifle is in a rest, and thus, you cannot beat wind changes. If you have ever shot small bore prone, what really separates the men from the boys is wind reading capability. All the good shooters can hold the ten/X ring, but that rim fire bullet is extremely sensitive to wind changes, and so, shooters who don't pick up wind changes, drop points.

Welcome to Big Piney Sportmans Club, our F class matches were shot with no delay(no pits). In the very near future our matches are going electronic, it will be interesting to see what happens. I am looking foreword to the electronic scoring and the benefits it will provide. Ill beat scores will go up after the kinks are worked out.
Look out here comes the future.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

F-class is more of an equipment race than Br is. A top notch f-open rifle, seb rest, spotter, and all the other equipment, and ammo will set you back quite a bit more than a top notch BR setup will. I know we like to think of BR as a speed shooting equipment race, but F-open has far surpassed Br in costs. Without the tracking of a Br rifle you really cant shoot fast enough to truly take advantage of shooting fast. I think maybe we are worried too much about a perceived potential advantage of another shooter, when the champions are worried about shooting the best scores they can.

 

[Bindi2]

The rules give you a maximum time, some people use it all and want more. The last Championship shoot I attended there were 4 protests about the time not being long enough. Disallowed of course. There were no protests about any body using less than their allocated time. ETs were used. Putting in a time delay will push more people into time issues.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

The only problem I have with ET's is that there is no tangible target record of the shoot.

We love bragging and posting pics of those little groups at longer ranges. A pic of a screenshot might not feel the same.

Dunno. Been to Talladega a few times. Pics of the screenshots seem just as satisfying to my friends and I. And ETs allow for so much more shooting in a shorter time without all the travel back and forth from shooting position to the target. Shooting a tourney with 2 relays instead of 3-4 and not having pit changes allows a three match tourney to be completed before noon most days. Then you have the rest of the afternoon for a leisurely recreational use practicing and load testing.

 

[randy x]

Talladega was my first et match. I had fun instead of being wore out. 7 second delay still only 140 seconds. Opinions like assholes everybody got one. Lol

 

[cdngary]

Talladega was my first et match. I had fun instead of being wore out. 7 second delay still only 140 seconds. Opinions like assholes everybody got one. Lol

A way of solving a lot of the time problems would be to change to the ICFRA system. 2 or 3 shooters per target would allow more shooters per day and would make the required time between each shooter, so the quick string shooting can't be done.Also the U.S. teams that go to the big shoots in other parts of the world would be more used to using their system.

 

[Immike]

A way of solving a lot of the time problems would be to change to the ICFRA system. 2 or 3 shooters per target would allow more shooters per day and would make the required time between each shooter, so the quick string shooting can't be done.Also the U.S. teams that go to the big shoots in other parts of the world would be more used to using their system.

This is a idea that I would like to see local matches try once a year just to see for themselves and for the experience. It would make a great change of pace if nothing else! Of course this would be a good year for that!

It also could be used for 2 man team shooting!

 

[normmatzen]

My friend in Australia has been shooting F Class long enough to remember the old paper target days and he has nothing but good things to say about electronic targets!
I shoot BR also and I can tell you that waiting for a stable wind and shooting fast can bite you more often than helping you!

 

[BradY]

Yes as mentioned we have been shooting on electronics for a long time here in Aus. While initially there were protests about "machine gunning", the more and more we shoot it has become obvious that it's very very easy to get caught out doing it. If your talented enough you can do it, but it still involves readignwind and assessing changes on the run, a lot faster than you would be capable of normally. To keep composure doing this is very hard, a lot of people turn back to shooting slow and steady and doing better. This isn't an issue guys really. The more important thing is maintenance and maintaining accuracy in he target systems. Failure to do that will result in a faster death of the sport as you won't have anyone attending when it gets out the targets are unreliable.

 

[Bob Sebold]

I shot fast the first day at Lodi Nationals. With the cross fire I came in dead last at high master class. Took my time the second day and shot like I should have. I won that day. You do what ever the hell you want to.