Electronic devices at the F-Class nationals

[kybountyhunter]

I started this thread to try to get some information about what devices are going to be used at the F-Class nationals this year.

Not for someone else to start a shit storm about weather or not he likes or dislikes the E -targets. Go start your own thread and don't hijack someone else's.

Thanks Shawn for defending the e-targets and the many of us that do enjoy shooting on them.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Ned Ludd]

Mine was not a personal attack on anyone, it was simply my opinion. F-Class will never be the same looking over at your tablet every shot, targets that never go down,and a scorer that really isn't even necessary. If you prefer it that way, that's fine, that's your opinion, and you're fully entitled to it. But this situation is very much like the current administration's behavior over the last 7 years. WE know what's best for you, and we're going to do it without your input or approval. Your input doesn't really matter because WE know much better than you what's best for you, and best for the sport as a whole. This is what WE have decided and if you don't like it, you're welcome not to participate. Very typical liberal thinking...progress for the sake of progress, whether it's actually an improvement or not. I just never imagined I would see it in F-Class.

Enjoy the pseudo-F Class, I have no doubt that it's the way everything is going, if it's not there already. However, consider the fact that if the technology doesn't already exist at the competition level (i.e. simultaneously for a whole firing line of shooters), it's very close, to be able to program wind conditions into a computer with a given bullet and velocity, predict an impact point, and generate a score, without ever actually even firing a single shot. With a number of ranges declaring certain calibers illegal due to impact zones and such, the current administration's position on gun control and other legislative efforts, how long do you think it will be before someone comes up with the "super-genius" idea that it's not even necessary to actually fire live rounds? You may scoff at that idea, but I would be shocked if it's all that far off...basically, an F-Class video game.

Edited to add - Mike I saw your post only after posting this reply. I apologize for starting this in your thread and won't add anything further. But as you can tell, this topic has been eating at me for some time since the advent of electronic targets and this seemed like a logical place to respond. As I stated, sorry for pissing in your thread, I won't add anything else.

 

[Heman]

Progress for the sake of keeping people on the range that can no longer pull targets. Progress because it gives everybody the same pit service. Progress because it attracts new people because they don't have to spend 6-7 hours on a range to shoot a 3x1000 or 3x600 because it can be done in 3 hours. Progress because it eliminates someone in the pits being liberal on marking a shot because their buddy deserves it. This has nothing to do with the current presidential admin. Instead this is free market principle that is causing their adoption. The people who have gone to these systems have seen their benefit and the increased match attendance and the views of the people who attend support that.

Looking at a tablet is no different than looking at your spotting scope. Scorer still is necessary because as a match director it is easier to see a paper copy than to pull all the scores off each target individually. You still have to execute a shot. I can lay in my basement on a scatt trainer and if I don't execute each shot is not an X. I'm not firing live ammo. Again you still have wind, you still have to have a good load, you still have to execute a shot. What difference does it make if your target doesn't go up and down?

 

[B Nettesheim]

You guys are showing your complete ignorance. We have electronic targets at our range. We have several F-class shooters who are on the national teams, one of them has the National Record for the mid-range agg he set last year on manual targets. Nobody is rattling shots down as fast as they can, they are reading the conditions. Do shots happen faster yes, but it is because the target is up so you can read the condition faster. Guys who are going to machine gun on electronic targets are going to machine gun on manual targets. You still have to read the wind. Couple years back at Oak Ridge my fiance was pulling for an f-class shooter and that target no sooner got up than it was being pulled back down and she was giving rather fast service. Personally as a sling shooter I'm waiting longer taking a shot as the time I would spend waiting on the target I'm analyzing the wind conditions more and the shot location before I take the shot. Overal the time is shorter for my string but if you consider there is no time the target is down in the pits, the amount of time I'm spending with the target up in the air reading is more, so I'm shooting slower actually.

Going along with your line of thinking lets just have everyone shoot, then pull the targets down for a minute then put them back up in the air, heck lets do 5 minutes in the pits. Because 5-10 second pit service is not nearly as challenging for wind reading skills as what a minute in the pits would be. Good grief, give me a break........

Sound like a good idea to me ....lets make the match last till 8pm with only 2 relays

 

[gibrass]

Progress for the sake of keeping people on the range that can no longer pull targets. Progress because it gives everybody the same pit service. Progress because it attracts new people because they don't have to spend 6-7 hours on a range to shoot a 3x1000 or 3x600 because it can be done in 3 hours. Progress because it eliminates someone in the pits being liberal on marking a shot because their buddy deserves it. This has nothing to do with the current presidential admin. Instead this is free market principle that is causing their adoption. The people who have gone to these systems have seen their benefit and the increased match attendance and the views of the people who attend support that.

Looking at a tablet is no different than looking at your spotting scope. Scorer still is necessary because as a match director it is easier to see a paper copy than to pull all the scores off each target individually. You still have to execute a shot. I can lay in my basement on a scatt trainer and if I don't execute each shot is not an X. I'm not firing live ammo. Again you still have wind, you still have to have a good load, you still have to execute a shot. What difference does it make if your target doesn't go up and down?

I do not shoot F-Class, but am almost a grand senior sling shooter. I do not care to be suited up in my leather shooting jacket on 90 degree days for very long. Nor does my arm like be slung in for more than about 10 minutes. We've all had matches where the pit pullers take forever to pull targets, especially at ranges that don't have impact berms (like Atterbury, Tullahoma, and Perry). Electronic targets let you shoot as fast (or as slow) as you want, with great pit service, and no distractions. Take however long you want. Granted, is does take away the "persona" of pit duty, but I no longer miss that. The camaraderie of having everyone on the line at the same time is contagious. The learning curve for this system is quite easy. It is the future, and I for one look forward to more electronic ranges.

 

[Ringostar]

One good reason that Winnaquah went with the E targets is to fit more shooters in for the F class nationals. It's a way to get more venues that can handle the match. Not everyone wants to be limited to only 2 ranges in the southwest.

 

[THELUVDR285]

Mine was not a personal attack on anyone, it was simply my opinion. F-Class will never be the same looking over at your tablet every shot, targets that never go down,and a scorer that really isn't even necessary. If you prefer it that way, that's fine, that's your opinion, and you're fully entitled to it. But this situation is very much like the current administration's behavior over the last 7 years. WE know what's best for you, and we're going to do it without your input or approval. Your input doesn't really matter because WE know much better than you what's best for you, and best for the sport as a whole. This is what WE have decided and if you don't like it, you're welcome not to participate. Very typical liberal thinking...progress for the sake of progress, whether it's actually an improvement or not. I just never imagined I would see it in F-Class.

Enjoy the pseudo-F Class, I have no doubt that it's the way everything is going, if it's not there already. However, consider the fact that if the technology doesn't already exist at the competition level (i.e. simultaneously for a whole firing line of shooters), it's very close, to be able to program wind conditions into a computer with a given bullet and velocity, predict an impact point, and generate a score, without ever actually even firing a single shot. With a number of ranges declaring certain calibers illegal due to impact zones and such, the current administration's position on gun control and other legislative efforts, how long do you think it will be before someone comes up with the "super-genius" idea that it's not even necessary to actually fire live rounds? You may scoff at that idea, but I would be shocked if it's all that far off...basically, an F-Class video game.

Edited to add - Mike I saw your post only after posting this reply. I apologize for starting this in your thread and won't add anything further. But as you can tell, this topic has been eating at me for some time since the advent of electronic targets and this seemed like a logical place to respond. As I stated, sorry for pissing in your thread, I won't add anything else.

Liberal??? Really.... LOL. I bet some people said the same thing about the Internet. Go ahead and Mail your replies with a stamp please.

 

[Heman]

The same thing was also said when F-Class was started back in the NRA. It was going to be the death of precision shooting, etc. As a sling shooter who came in to the sport in 2007, F-class has gotten more people out to the range and kept people on the range longer. Electronic targets already has in some cases and will long term overall do the same thing.

 

[Cburlette]

I've shot 2 CIHPRS matches at Camp Atterbury, they run a top notch match. The Silver Mountain targets have been flawless for me, except for the occasion of the router at the firing line toppling over once.

I use my iPhone for both scoring other shooters and for checking shot placement while I shoot.

Craig

 

[Immike]

Interesting isn't it? I'm in the middle of the road on this. Atterbury is a prime example of a club that needed to do something about pit sevice because the pits are heavy, poorly designed with no impact zone. Praise to Shawn for fixing the problem! I think the spirit of the sport is important to all of us and the clubs that convert will by the necessity of it. We have choices now due to growth. I'm ok with that so far. I don't think we should fight this and let it be what it will. Many clubs that exist will stay traditional if that's what they prefer then all this will go where it gravitates to. Old school will rule because they are winners and throw anything at them doesn't matter, but the fixed puller changes a lot , maybe we lose our shooting savy with this stuff possibly.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I want to thank kybountyhunter for starting this informative thread. Yes, things evolve, it's the nature of things. I will miss watching the action on other targets, but then again, so will everybody else. It's a great equalizer, everyone will have the same pit service. We will adapt.

 

[B Nettesheim]

I want to thank kybountyhunter for starting this informative thread. Yes, things evolve, it's the nature of things. I will miss watching the action on other targets, but then again, so will everybody else. It's a great equalizer, everyone will have the same pit service. We will adapt.

Well said

 

[kybountyhunter]

I want to thank everyone for providing the information on the e-targets and devices being used at the F-Class nationals.

Thanks to gstaylorg for being a stand up guy and apologizing for joining in the hijacking of the tread. Looks like I've lost the battle.

But I must admit it has turned into a good and pointed topic. Maybe we should change it to Voice your opinion on the Electronic Targets. I look forward to keep reading the opinions of everyone. Even the ones that have never tried to shoot on the e-targets.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[boltman13]

Would I be able to view my target using an Amazon Kendal Fire? Assuming I down loaded the proper app.

 

[jkl]

There is no app required. Log on to the Silver Mountain WiFi then log on the the corresponding target you want to watch or shoot on. Go the their website and there is a simulation.

John

 

[kybountyhunter]

Would I be able to view my target using an Amazon Kendal Fire? Assuming I down loaded the proper app.

The Kendal fire units are what CIHPRS at Atterbury purchased to use with the e-targets. So far in our experience with them at Atterbury they have not been up to the task. Poor battery life and having trouble staying connected.

Most people that come to shoot there now, just bring their own device too use. But in theory any device with Wi-Fi capability and a web browser should work with the e-targets. Just some work better than others.

Another thing I would point out on using your own device. I might suggest putting the device in a protective sleeve, like an otter box or something similar. You will be placing on your mat or on the ground. Also some way to prop up the device for you to see the screen. I've guys be creative on making something for their devices to lean on or attach too. I'm not that creative, I use a ammo box to lean mine against.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[spclark]

Spent yesterday over at WGC helping to run AC power & fiber optic cables from pit shed to stat office. 1,000 yards isn't the typical run with this kind of work so it took a crew of several guys all day to do what was necessary to complete this work. I had to leave before cables had reached the stat office but they're done by now, just waiting for our electrician to arrive tomorrow to complete connections at both ends.



Both spools were EMPTY once we'd gotten to the stat office (maybe 50' extra AC cable left over) and lots of sweat buried alongside what came off 'em.

 

[kybountyhunter]

Spent yesterday over at WGC helping to run AC power & fiber optic cables from pit shed to stat office. 1,000 yards isn't the typical run with this kind of work so it took a crew of several guys all day to do what was necessary to complete this work. I had to leave before cables had reached the stat office but they're done by now, just waiting for our electrician to arrive tomorrow to complete connections at both ends.

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Both spools were EMPTY once we'd gotten to the stat office (maybe 50' extra AC cable left over) and lots of sweat buried alongside what came off 'em.

That's what I call one hell of a commitment to the shooting community, from great club and the fantastic members of the club!

I'm really looking forward to shooting at the F-Class nationals in Sept.

 

[Heman]

The answer to your question. Kindle Fire HD yes work. However you need to turn the screen down or their batter drains quick. Even with sleep set to 30 minutes and another hidden sleep mode feature turned off they still like to go to sleep. You have to tap them every so often and if they do go to sleep close the browser window, reopen it and then it works. Oh yeah you also have to go through the steps of installing chrome on them as the silk browser doesn't work that great. Bottom line don't buy a kindle if you have somthing else. I've personally used my Samsung Galaxy 7" tablet which works great. Ipads work great as do the Samsung/Apple phones. The little $60 wal mart tablet have worked great for one of our fclass shooters so we've purchased 7 of those to use/try.

 

[gibrass]

The answer to your question. Kindle Fire HD yes work. However you need to turn the screen down or their batter drains quick. Even with sleep set to 30 minutes and another hidden sleep mode feature turned off they still like to go to sleep. You have to tap them every so often and if they do go to sleep close the browser window, reopen it and then it works. Oh yeah you also have to go through the steps of installing chrome on them as the silk browser doesn't work that great. Bottom line don't buy a kindle if you have somthing else. I've personally used my Samsung Galaxy 7" tablet which works great. Ipads work great as do the Samsung/Apple phones. The little $60 wal mart tablet have worked great for one of our fclass shooters so we've purchased 7 of those to use/try.

Any cell phone that has WiFi capability will work. I have an Iphone 3 that does great. Battery will easily last three matches, but the screen is small. The newer phones with bigger screens, or the larger Ipads and tablets are more easily readable. As Shawn mentioned, our experience with the Kindles was not good.