Electronic devices at the F-Class nationals

[kybountyhunter]

Myself and a few others are wanting to know what type of electronic devices are being used for the scorer and the shooter? Are there going to be two devices provided, our can we bring our own device to use while shooting?

I only ask these questions, because I have been shooting on the same electronic target's all year with Cihprs at Camp Atterbury that will be used at Lodi for the nationals. We have determined that the recommended Kindles are not up to the task, battery life is very short, trouble staying connected. Some of the devices that have worked the best are I-Pads, Samsung tablet, Android devices, a lot guys will use their smart phones also.

Are you going to allow shooter's to follow there fellow shooter on their own device while you are at the ready and not shooting or scoring?

IMO, I have really learned to like the electronic target's. There is great immediate valuable information that is given to you in a few seconds. Like MV on each round as it reaches the target, your group size, I found this to help me out in making a faster decision on giving a few clicks in any direction. One of the only things I don't like about the electronic target's is, using other guy's target's as guinea pigs when a bad shot comes up!

But the guys at CIHPRS, Shawn Agne, Jeff Hopkins, Kevin Hill, Dwayne Dragoo have really worked there tails off in getting the E. target's at the club and getting them to working great.

 

[Ringostar]

Yes you can use your own device.

 

[Immike]

Yes you can use your own device.

Keith , I'll be one of the not so tech guys. Will I survive this with nothing of support equipment ?

 

[B Nettesheim]

For each relay the scorer and shooter will have their own Lenovo tablet.

 

[spclark]

Keith , I'll be one of the not so tech guys. Will I survive this with nothing of support equipment ?

Depends on how comfortable you are now using a web browser.

Tablets can be a challenge to those who're not accustomed to touchpad devices.

Visibility of the screens when the sun is out affects everyone.

(An iPad I use seems bright enough but I have a case for it I can use to provide shade when needed. A Windows laptop I sometimes use for another purpose is almost impossible to see unless I've changed screen from color to black and white; that may help with the devices WGC has acquired for use by competitors.)

As with anything new there's a learning curve so don't forget among the company you have there there'll be help available from those around you.

Don't be embarrassed to ask for help if something's not making sense. We all start out knowing nothing, just not all at the same time.

 

[kybountyhunter]

If bringing your own device, depending on the size of it and battery life. You might want to bring a external battery backup unit to last all day.

 

[Kevin]

But the guys at CIHPRS, Shawn Agne, Jeff Hopkins, Kevin Hill, Dwayne Dragoo have really worked there tails off in getting the E. target's at the club and getting them to working great.

Thanks kybountyhunter! It has been a lot of work. Still more work to go as the software and communication issues get worked out. The real stars in the CIHPRS season were the members that purchased the 7 systems to let the rest of us shoot on them. Some are mentioned above (I could only offer my labor). Some probably don't want to be named. They are certainly appreciated!

Regarding the devices at Nats. I'm too interested in the best devices and whether or not the system will be robust enough to allow spectators to watch. There is a method built into the systems we have (G2) to see neighboring targets. Unfortunately, until the SMT server software (S3/S10) is fully debugged, we have to use the G2 in individual target mode. The neighboring targets are visible (if you know which hidden link to touch on the screen), but not in any logistical order, so it's really useless for "peeking." I believe the Lodi system should be more feature driven by the time September rolls around, robustness is yet to be seen however. There is not much time left to shake down a new system.

 

[Ringostar]

Mike, you'll be fine. I suggest that you still bring a spotting scope though. You can watch the trace while scoring or sitting back relaxing. It's a good way to see what's happening.

 

[Immike]

Mike, you'll be fine. I suggest that you still bring a spotting scope though. You can watch the trace while scoring or sitting back relaxing. It's a good way to see what's happening.

No worries Keith but I'm just a guy that isn't involved with this technology anymore than what you see here. Thanks for taking the time, I'm sure I will thoroughly enjoy every min of this special match in a beautiful state. We got cabins on the water and a mean team! Oh yeah! Lodi, I'm good with it!!

 

[Ringostar]

You'll enjoy staying at the lake. You might even consider doing some fishing at night.

 

[spclark]

I believe the Lodi system should be more feature driven by the time September rolls around, robustness is yet to be seen however. There is not much time left to shake down a new system.

Unless something's changed in the last four months the SMT technology deployed at Winnequah Gun Club will appear to competitors and observers essentially the same as what they'd see using a single-target system.

The exception being access to other targets' information by means of small icons at the bottom of each display screen.

The WGC & SMT teams spent considerable time & energy since the roll-out last May getting things whipped into shape.

Though not associated with SMT I've learned that their WGC deployment is fully functional at this time, in fact surpassing their original expectations for its performance.

There's still work to be done that will further enhance its installation, most of which should be completed by the next match scheduled for 8/13-14. My plans include participating both days so I'll try to provide an update to this post once I'm back home.

 

[jkl]

As a target owner and I know there are differences in what is at Lodi but I will tell you what are the most common problems. Guess what it is not the target system, the tablet operator! Every time including last weekend the same issues always arise.

• You need to know how to operate your tablet, computer, phone or device. Everybody can go to Facebook, eBay and email but not much help here.
  
• You have to know how to change the device's sleep mode time so the screen does not go to sleep while shooting. (I change my I pad to never and change it back to 5 minutes when I am done shooting) 3 shooters shooting a 60 shot match I still have at least 50% battery remaining at the end of the day.
  
• You have to know how to connect the wifi so you can get on Silver Mountain wifi. Sounds easy but I still have to connect someone at every match.
  
• Now you can log on to the target by going to your internet browser. Type in the IP address of your target and you are ready to operate the target.
  
• The biggest thing I had to learn and most will agree is don't look at the screen as soon as you shoot. The bullet will still be in the gun and you will be so impressed how much you can pull or push a shot. Follow through you can't change what you are about to see on the screen anyway. (That took at least a full string of kicking myself.) Now I just charge the batteries in the target and no excuses from the pits. Or if you are doing load testing or just extra shots you don't have to worry about the puller in the pits being unhappy with more shots down range.

John

 

[Heman]

I talked with Wayne this morning. Lodi is fully operational and the SMTs are working beautifully now. He said they tested them last wednesday during long range league and course league and they didn't miss a shot. He said they then tried to break the system putting 4 shooters on 1 target shooting rapids and the targets didn't miss a shot.

As far as the S10 software that Kevin was referring to ends up when we blew out our first chip and I installed the replacement chip I didn't set the sensor mapping properly. Once we got that fixed today with Dan I went out and tested it and the S10 worked like a charm.

There actually are a lot of new features in the upcoming software packages just taking a while to get them out. I know we've been talking with them about certain things that would be nice to add, etc.

 

[Kevin]

I talked with Wayne this morning. Lodi is fully operational and the SMTs are working beautifully now. He said they tested them last wednesday during long range league and course league and they didn't miss a shot. He said they then tried to break the system putting 4 shooters on 1 target shooting rapids and the targets didn't miss a shot.

As far as the S10 software that Kevin was referring to ends up when we blew out our first chip and I installed the replacement chip I didn't set the sensor mapping properly. Once we got that fixed today with Dan I went out and tested it and the S10 worked like a charm.

There actually are a lot of new features in the upcoming software packages just taking a while to get them out. I know we've been talking with them about certain things that would be nice to add, etc.

Awesome! Next step to test will be having 200+ shooters/scorers/spectators/line personnel/etc. logged in simultaneously. Spectators will be likely switching targets faster than a Phoenix wind shift.

 

[Bob Sebold]

I can tell you the targets are working great! The things the scorer should do are remember what shot shooter is on and watch the shooter until he shoots. You will need to keep a paper record per NRA rules, but it is better to fill in the paper after all shooting is done. All the scores can be gotten from you tablet. Both shooter and scorer will have tablets. As far as personnel devices go, we plan on letting everybody who wants to use their own can do so, we are trying to get some kind of TV setup behind the lines so you can watch all targets also. If it becomes to much for the wifi we will have to shut some off. It should be able to handle the volume but we really can't test that part until we get 200 bodies on the line.

You do not have to be tech savvy to run these tablets, they are really easy, and foolproof. All apps have been taken off except for what is needed for shooting, no porn watching on the line! If you get a crossfire, it will happen, or a shot does not score you just raise your hand and one of the helpers on the line will quickly fix the problem. Sorry, for all those who love to pull in hot weather, or ride our great bus, you will be out of luck. Well, maybe we could take a bus ride for those who want to after the match. Might have to charge you a substantial fee for that tho!

We will have raffle tickets to peddle, for a Kelbly gun with Vortex's really nice scope on it so bring extra cash.

 

[gibrass]

I can tell you the targets are working great! The things the scorer should do are remember what shot shooter is on and watch the shooter until he shoots. You will need to keep a paper record per NRA rules, but it is better to fill in the paper after all shooting is done. All the scores can be gotten from you tablet. Both shooter and scorer will have tablets. As far as personnel devices go, we plan on letting everybody who wants to use their own can do so, we are trying to get some kind of TV setup behind the lines so you can watch all targets also. If it becomes to much for the wifi we will have to shut some off. It should be able to handle the volume but we really can't test that part until we get 200 bodies on the line.

You do not have to be tech savvy to run these tablets, they are really easy, and foolproof. All apps have been taken off except for what is needed for shooting, no porn watching on the line! If you get a crossfire, it will happen, or a shot does not score you just raise your hand and one of the helpers on the line will quickly fix the problem. Sorry, for all those who love to pull in hot weather, or ride our great bus, you will be out of luck. Well, maybe we could take a bus ride for those who want to after the match. Might have to charge you a substantial fee for that tho!

We will have raffle tickets to peddle, for a Kelbly gun with Vortex's really nice scope on it so bring extra cash.

Having shot the SMTs at Atterbury, I can say that if you are scoring a fast shooter, you can miss a shot unless really paying attention and watching your shooter. And believe me, people do seem to shoot a lot quicker when they're getting 4-5 second "pit" service. However, because you have an image of the target with all shots numbered, with value, it is easy to find a shot you might have missed. As far as not having to pull targets, I've heard no complaints.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Having shot the SMTs at Atterbury, I can say that if you are scoring a fast shooter, you can miss a shot unless really paying attention and watching your shooter. And believe me, people do seem to shoot a lot quicker when they're getting 4-5 second "pit" service. However, because you have an image of the target with all shots numbered, with value, it is easy to find a shot you might have missed. As far as not having to pull targets, I've heard no complaints.

Now you will. This is not shooting. This is not the F-Class I know and love. This is some sick caricature of F-Class. Tablets all around...really? 4-5 second pit service...really? This is progress for the sake of progress, pure and simple. Maybe I am a dinosaur...but I have no interest whatsoever in going down this particular road. When the last local venue I can find finally breaks down and buys electronic targets, I'll simply shoot for fun...on my own.

 

[Zilla]

I believe Lodi will have 7 second delay.

 

[Scott Harris]

Now you will. This is not shooting. This is not the F-Class I know and love. This is some sick caricature of F-Class. Tablets all around...really? 4-5 second pit service...really? This is progress for the sake of progress, pure and simple. Maybe I am a dinosaur...but I have no interest whatsoever in going down this particular road. When the last local venue I can find finally breaks down and buys electronic targets, I'll simply shoot for fun...on my own.

Couldn't agree more Greg and you are not a dinosaur. You're trying to preserve an essential part of F-class as a high power discipline. Seeing how fast you can rattle off your shots has little appeal and will definitely change things for the worse. It minimizes wind-reading skills required. If that is what people want, Benchrest is already available. Hopefully, the grand pubahs recognize this pitfall. F-class is a growing sport, let's preserve what makes it great as the transition to electronic targets occurs in the years ahead.

 

[Heman]

Couldn't agree more Greg and you are not a dinosaur. You're trying to preserve an essential part of F-class as a high power discipline. Seeing how fast you can rattle off your shots has little appeal and will definitely change things for the worse. It minimizes wind-reading skills required. If that is what people want, Benchrest is already available. Hopefully, the grand pubahs recognize this pitfall. F-class is a growing sport, let's preserve what makes it great as the transition to electronic targets occurs in the years ahead.

You guys are showing your complete ignorance. We have electronic targets at our range. We have several F-class shooters who are on the national teams, one of them has the National Record for the mid-range agg he set last year on manual targets. Nobody is rattling shots down as fast as they can, they are reading the conditions. Do shots happen faster yes, but it is because the target is up so you can read the condition faster. Guys who are going to machine gun on electronic targets are going to machine gun on manual targets. You still have to read the wind. Couple years back at Oak Ridge my fiance was pulling for an f-class shooter and that target no sooner got up than it was being pulled back down and she was giving rather fast service. Personally as a sling shooter I'm waiting longer taking a shot as the time I would spend waiting on the target I'm analyzing the wind conditions more and the shot location before I take the shot. Overal the time is shorter for my string but if you consider there is no time the target is down in the pits, the amount of time I'm spending with the target up in the air reading is more, so I'm shooting slower actually.

Going along with your line of thinking lets just have everyone shoot, then pull the targets down for a minute then put them back up in the air, heck lets do 5 minutes in the pits. Because 5-10 second pit service is not nearly as challenging for wind reading skills as what a minute in the pits would be. Good grief, give me a break........