Electric Cars -- anyone own one?
- Thread starter muleman69
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Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
WRT tire wear on EVs, of course it depends largely on how you drive. The two main reasons for faster wear on EVs are a) EVs are hundreds of pounds heavier than equivalent ICE vehicles, and b) EVs provide massive available torque. One can do nothing about the weight (and it doesn't drop as the battery discharges!) but one can drive in a manner which favors tires over chiropractor profits.
EV tire wear is no myth, unless most EV owners are delusional. Here's what J.D. Power wrote recently about EV tire wear:
Troy, Mich.: 25 March 2024 — The satisfaction gap with original equipment tires between electric vehicles (EVs) and gas-powered vehicles is widening, as EV owners say their tires are wearing faster, according to the J.D. Power 2024 U.S. Original Equipment Tire Customer Satisfaction Study, released today. The study shows that EV owners have similar expectations of tire wear as do owners of gas-powered vehicles, despite EV tires naturally wearing faster due to greater vehicle weight and higher torque. ... Because of the inherit conflict of maximizing vehicle range and optimizing tire wear for EVs, tire manufacturers and automakers need to work together to overcome the challenge without completely sacrificing tire performance in other areas, especially as the EV market continues to increase.”
I believe Jackie's 2023 Chevy Bolt is potentially the easiest on tires of all the popular EVs sold in the USA. Compare it to Tesla's entry-level 2023 Model 3 Base, another two-wheel-drive EV (Bolt is FWD, Model 3 is RWD.) The Model 3 is 5% heavier than the Bolt, has only 4% more available torque (at 0 mph), yet its as-tested (by Edmunds) 0-60 ET is a whopping 34% faster than the Bolt. For whatever reason (MCU programming, superior technology, ?) the Tesla will be a lot more likely to thrash the tires than the Bolt, and it's a heavier car.
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EV tire wear is no myth, unless most EV owners are delusional. Here's what J.D. Power wrote recently about EV tire wear:
Troy, Mich.: 25 March 2024 — The satisfaction gap with original equipment tires between electric vehicles (EVs) and gas-powered vehicles is widening, as EV owners say their tires are wearing faster, according to the J.D. Power 2024 U.S. Original Equipment Tire Customer Satisfaction Study, released today. The study shows that EV owners have similar expectations of tire wear as do owners of gas-powered vehicles, despite EV tires naturally wearing faster due to greater vehicle weight and higher torque. ... Because of the inherit conflict of maximizing vehicle range and optimizing tire wear for EVs, tire manufacturers and automakers need to work together to overcome the challenge without completely sacrificing tire performance in other areas, especially as the EV market continues to increase.”
I believe Jackie's 2023 Chevy Bolt is potentially the easiest on tires of all the popular EVs sold in the USA. Compare it to Tesla's entry-level 2023 Model 3 Base, another two-wheel-drive EV (Bolt is FWD, Model 3 is RWD.) The Model 3 is 5% heavier than the Bolt, has only 4% more available torque (at 0 mph), yet its as-tested (by Edmunds) 0-60 ET is a whopping 34% faster than the Bolt. For whatever reason (MCU programming, superior technology, ?) the Tesla will be a lot more likely to thrash the tires than the Bolt, and it's a heavier car.
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Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
... and what they smell like.
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rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
No worries… mag lev cars are up next! They’ll eliminate rolling friction and extend range/battery life
The ones I looked at appeared like a regular high end $$$ tire, did not notice any unusual odor. Interior panels and upholstery are getting away from oil based components when possible also. Less oil, less evaporative emissions standards to meet.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Connolly leather!
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jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes, twice already.
A small tire shop around the corner from our shop will rotate an balance them for $50.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Edmunds.com in its EV reviews offer this AFAIK unique graphic depicting range. Here is the range map (click to embiggen) for the 2024 Ford F-150 Lightning in Kansas City. Not a great round-trip radius, but no worries about charging stations (or hills!) apparently. (But bear in mind, this does not represent a Lightning towing or hauling anything.)
If I owned the Lightning in my city of Reno, some limitations appear as Swiss cheese, even very close to the urban area. And in fact, the area enclosed in yellow is where I do 100% of my hunting and shooting, all of it on roads ranging from graded gravel (at best) down to rough two-track Jeep roads:
If you lived in an even more remote city in the Inter-mountain West, it gets more interesting. Missoula, MT:
Or Flagstaff, AZ:
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If I owned the Lightning in my city of Reno, some limitations appear as Swiss cheese, even very close to the urban area. And in fact, the area enclosed in yellow is where I do 100% of my hunting and shooting, all of it on roads ranging from graded gravel (at best) down to rough two-track Jeep roads:
If you lived in an even more remote city in the Inter-mountain West, it gets more interesting. Missoula, MT:
Or Flagstaff, AZ:
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dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
What makes that more interesting is when you realize that Missoula is the second largest city, 80,000, third largest county, 120,000 by population in the state.
In researching if an EV will work for your lifestyle, you also need to consider which, EV might work. The state of Montana is a good example of that. Many routes work A-B, but the return trip may require a stop for a charge or rerouting. The reason is the regenerative braking, may be the only reason you can make the leg of the route work.
If you research charging stations and route planning in the state, you might find that a Chevy Bolt or Kia make a much more practical purchase than a Tesla or Rivian. All but the smallest of cities will have a Chevy dealer, therefore a charger.
Reliance on internet or cell signals for certain features may be a deal braker when you realize your route may not have a signal.
Owning and driving an EV is all about planning ahead, and having a plan B.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
That's the crux of the biscuit, isn't it? Driving an ICE vehicle is all about not forgetting your credit card, no Plan B required*.
I'm amused by the term "range anxiety". A common usage of "anxiety" is "a mental condition characterized by excessive apprehensiveness about real or perceived threats". "Range anxiety" implies range is a trivial concern of Nervous Nellies, a state of mind simply needing overcoming.
(* Unless you're driving deep into one of the larger unpopulated areas of the Inter-mountain West, where you may need to carry a can of gas.)
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Manufacturers avoid the uncomfortable disclosure of time to fully charge by instead advising " a 20 minute charge will get you x amount of miles" Usually 50-100 on a fast charge.
I think back in the late 70's when we has an oil-embargo and the lines were long, fuel was limited to so many gallons, odd/even days for fueling. What a huge PIA. I sympathize with the EV crowd, for many, this us their normal.
I think back in the late 70's when we has an oil-embargo and the lines were long, fuel was limited to so many gallons, odd/even days for fueling. What a huge PIA. I sympathize with the EV crowd, for many, this us their normal.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Edmunds.com writes:
EV batteries lose 1-2% of range per year. ... According to GeoTab’s data, if the observed degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle.
Since most EV batteries are warrantied for 8 years / 100,000 miles, the expected usable life of the vehicle and battery seem to be considered 8 years. Is my reckoning far off?
EV batteries should be kept at 30-80% charged to extend battery life.
Most EV route planners default to 10-90% range of charge. Sooo, what does 30-80% do to their planning? Throws a wrench in it, that's what!
If you can’t charge at home, charging at a charging station could take at least 10x longer than at a gas station.
Wait, I thought home chargers (even 240v ones) were slow chargers. The fast ones are out on the roadsides, aren't they? So what gives with this statement?
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EV batteries lose 1-2% of range per year. ... According to GeoTab’s data, if the observed degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle.
Since most EV batteries are warrantied for 8 years / 100,000 miles, the expected usable life of the vehicle and battery seem to be considered 8 years. Is my reckoning far off?
EV batteries should be kept at 30-80% charged to extend battery life.
Most EV route planners default to 10-90% range of charge. Sooo, what does 30-80% do to their planning? Throws a wrench in it, that's what!
If you can’t charge at home, charging at a charging station could take at least 10x longer than at a gas station.
Wait, I thought home chargers (even 240v ones) were slow chargers. The fast ones are out on the roadsides, aren't they? So what gives with this statement?
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NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
And when the EV catches fire, it burns much cleaner.
Gas vehicles are one the of the oldest subsidized things in the US. The first subsidies were handed out to the oil industry which really hit the EV world hard. Back when 40% of the market was one EV company out of France. We still heavily subsidize gas. If we didn't you would be paying $8 - $10 per gallon.
The whole EV thing was implemented with no thought (which is normal, because our elected officials generally don't have a brain). It should not have been implemented with the goad of eliminating internal combustion engines. There are people that can use an EV without handicaps. I sat at a local hospital this year which had charging stations. You could commute to work, plug in while you worked, and not have to endure a wait for charging. Then there are people who I've seen in this thread who can efficiently make an EV work for them. For a majority of the nation, they just won't work.
The elected officials who are implementing EV's and other bad ideas like to keep our attention on other things, when we really should be voting them OUT of office. I just read that many large liberal donors are moving their funds to help their choice of representatives and senators, because they know they can hamstring a conservative president.
The elected officials who are implementing EV's and other bad ideas like to keep our attention on other things, when we really should be voting them OUT of office. I just read that many large liberal donors are moving their funds to help their choice of representatives and senators, because they know they can hamstring a conservative president.
I recently recently forgot my wallet and needed gas, I was able to use Apple Pay. So, add the phone into your mix.
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