Ejectors vs accurcy

[tom]

@gunsandgunsmithing

I can, or am only willing to research, only speak to ibs 1k. All 12 heavy gun records are held currently by drop ports. Some of the light gun records as well are, but I'm not totally sure...about half (6). I don't think it proves much of anything though. For that matter 21 of 24 are held by lrb stocks or it's plywood predecessor....I wouldn't know what that proves either lol....Other than I'm probably stupid to now want to try out another stock on my next build. I would guess that 99.99% of short range records are exactly the opposite?

Tom

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I think what Bartlein is doing with trying different steel alloys in barrels will be the next major evolution in accuracy. People have nit picked and fine tuned bullets, brass, powders, stocks, actions and fire controls, triggers, weight sorted primers, tested optics, and now we are nit picking ejector springs...yet the barrel, which is arguably the largest single factor in the accuracy level a rifle will ever be capable of achieving doesn’t get a lot of attention. And of course we are all at the mercy of the manufacturers so I understand that there is not a lot we can do about it.

I know there has been tons of work on different rifling styles, twist rates, and bore/groove diameters over the years but CM and 416 SS have mostly been the only steels used for decades by top barrel builders. Carbon barrels was a big attempt at changing the game but they have the same CM and 416 steel inside. I’m hoping to see good things from this new Bartlein BB steel as it is the first “major” change in barrel composition I have seen in quite some time.

 

[tom]

And one just got screwed on my red gun 3 minutes ago.......SO ME TOO! LOL

Tom

 

[LRPV]

And one just got screwed on my red gun 3 minutes ago.......SO ME TOO! LOL

Tom

#bluegunsshootbetter

 

[SecondsCount]

25 years ago when I was shooting with a buddy down in AZ, a nice gentleman came over and started up a conversation with us.

I was new to precision rifle shooting and had just bought a Remington VS in 223. He offered a lot of advice about loads and things I could do to improve the rifle. One suggestion was to cut a few coils of the ejector spring to lessen the pressure on the case. I never tried it but some of his other advice helped me out.

 

[6MMsteve]

exciting

 

[INTJ]

All of my hunting rifles are CRF M-70s, except for one CRF CZ-550 Safari. All my BR rifles have plunger ejectors, and my BR rifles shoot better than my hunting rifles.......

Seriously though, I hear removing the plunger will tighten your ES.......

 

[Fuj]

You always hear how good a Savage will shoot out of the box.
Part of the argument goes that it's because of it's floating bolt
head. Well, I never paid much attention to the ejectors in my PTA
actions but last night while cleaning one, and remembering this
thread, I pushed in the ejector and noticed it was pretty stiff. I then
grabbed my other one, and it was even stiffer ?? Maybe this
summer when all else is settled in, I'll do a test.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Looking forward to the results of Your tests Fuj.

But, I suspect You will find what others on this thread have experienced. That when good brass prep and loading practices are observed, it doesn’t make any difference.

 

[Rat Rifle]

You always hear how good a Savage will shoot out of the box.
Part of the argument goes that it's because of it's floating bolt
head. Well, I never paid much attention to the ejectors in my PTA
actions but last night while cleaning one, and remembering this
thread, I pushed in the ejector and noticed it was pretty stiff. I then
grabbed my other one, and it was even stiffer ?? Maybe this
summer when all else is settled in, I'll do a test.

Possible test. Remove the ejector and the extractor. Shoot groups, removing each case with a rod.

PITA … but I guess most good research is. You probably have something like this in mind?

 

[Fuj]

Looking forward to the results of Your tests Fuj.

But, I suspect You will find what others on this thread have experienced. That when good brass prep and loading practices are observed, it doesn’t make any difference.

Your most likely right. My chambers are pretty tight and I can't
imagine anything changing. If I test, it most likely will be because
of boredom !!

 

[Mulligan]

If I recall correctly, and I am not saying I do, I think Tony Boyer had a preference for a dual port BAT 3 lug?
I do not know Mr. Boyer, nor have I ever met him. However, I have read his book more than once.
From this, if correct, I can extrapolate that an ejector, as long as it works like designed, will not have a negative impact on your agg.
CW

 

[Papa Charlie]

I think what Bartlein is doing with trying different steel alloys in barrels will be the next major evolution in accuracy. People have nit picked and fine tuned bullets, brass, powders, stocks, actions and fire controls, triggers, weight sorted primers, tested optics, and now we are nit picking ejector springs...yet the barrel, which is arguably the largest single factor in the accuracy level a rifle will ever be capable of achieving doesn’t get a lot of attention. And of course we are all at the mercy of the manufacturers so I understand that there is not a lot we can do about it.

I know there has been tons of work on different rifling styles, twist rates, and bore/groove diameters over the years but CM and 416 SS have mostly been the only steels used for decades by top barrel builders. Carbon barrels was a big attempt at changing the game but they have the same CM and 416 steel inside. I’m hoping to see good things from this new Bartlein BB steel as it is the first “major” change in barrel composition I have seen in quite some time.

I tend to agree with this. I think that we have refined most all other aspects of the rifle save the barrel. Not sure how much affect material alone will have on harmonic amplitude, bullet stabilization and flight to improve accuracy given the known materials that are workable into a barrel today. But it does seem that the next leap in accuracy will come in the barrel, now whether that is material, material treatment, barrel contour, rifling or what ever, that is yet to be seen.

My feeling is that instead of material, it will come in material treatment and rifling, one permitting advancements in the other.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

One thing I have noticed about the Bartlien BB steel is that what I look for in a groove has been excellent. I have not done a ton of these yet but I do wonder if this material is easier to work with? Bartlien typically does excellent work, but these ones just stood out as exceptional. You simply cant cut a better groove than those barrels had in them.

 

[dragman]

I like to run NO ejectors in my long range guns for a few reasons.
1 - When mocking up cases etc it's something I dont have to deal with don't have to add back in later etc
2 - I don't like my brass falling out hitting ground I prefer to take it out myself.
3 - I like to push whatever cartridge I am shooting to it's maximum potential. And with a pinned flush ejector or having it filled and faced I can push harder without destroying brass. With good components there are a lot of rounds that can shoot the next node etc if your willing to play the game.
I am not a BR shooter. I hunt long range groundhogs, deer and rocks! I do however shoot 1 or 2 matches a year and lets say I am not coming in last lol

 

[Downhill]

I have had old Benchrest shooters claim the ejector will deflect the case to the side of the chamber affecting perfect alignment. But (just to get them going) I will ask," If we are seating our bullets to a soft jam, would that not fix any deflection caused by the pressure of the ejector?" It leads to some pretty entertaining discussions.

 

[troupe]

I always thought that there was no difference in the accuracy with or without the ejector. The only difference was not getting brass dinged up. I don't have the competition experience as many of the other do though.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think a lot of the theory of the ejector pushing the case off to one side can be somewhat better understood by simply slipping a fired and sized case into a barrel while removed from the action. It'll be a pretty snug fit. At the least, it'll help to visualize what little potential movement is there. Of course this doesn't factor in the fp driving the case forward almost instantly, which should negate a lot of the tiny movement that we are debating over here.

 

[PracticalTactical]

So this topic has come up 3 times recently over the phone with different people. I don't know if something out there has brought this topic up? Id like to start a discussion about it. My personal experience is based on my own rifles as well as many customers and friends. So far as shoulder bump, seating depth, powder change, you name it I have not noticed any difference between a dual port (ejector) vs a drop port (no ejector). I also tune all my hunting rifles without an ejector and only install it for hunting season and have seen no change in tune. I welcome everyone's experiences on the topic.

To my way of thinking we need to consider the full round trip the brass takes from one firing to the next.

What I mean is guys like nice concentric reloads (if it helps or not) and great concentricity is only realistic if you start with an otherwise perfect case. Hard ejection preloads the round to one side in the chamber, then damages the case mouth at ejection. That leaves you with an imbalance in the application of force when you resize the necks, and that kills efforts to control runout. That dent also contaminates feedback on fired cases when evaluating neck clearances.

So one way or another, to get really great accuracy we need either no ejector or some system that does not apply side load to the extent that it affects cartridge alignment or damages the necks of our brass at ejection.

Case in point, Some years back Dan Dowling chambered up a barrel for me in 6X47L with a tight throat and he cut the ejector spring so it was incapable of ejecting a round. Brass would extract and just sit in the action till I pulled it out. That rifle was ridiculously accurate. Certainly not just because of the weak spring, but it was a factor in the round trip cycle that allowed near zero runout.

 

[Stan Taylor]

exciting

Wow I’m out do ya want to share.