Ejectors vs accurcy

[WIB3]

I have been following for quite some time. I currently shoot a light gun which weighs 14lbs. It is an old PPC gun which has a Hall B action. Will absolutely not eject a Dasher case. Took ejector completely out. Now I’m at a disadvantage for speed. When in competition, shoots 4-6” 10 shots groups at 1000. New light gun on the way. Might be a waste of money.

 

[Stan Taylor]

We’ll chit I guess gonna have to get popcorn out again and yes the bud light.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Alex I would agree but disagree, based off my data "actual data" not hypothetical Where I agree is in clean function I find zero difference, start slamming a bolt in the right configuration and you will induce problems for easily documented on the pin ejector versions. go's like any other conversation we have on here if your curious go test them and you may or may not see the difference. i shoot both versions with success

Shawn Williams

How many rifles have you seen this on? How many different types of actions? How many different types of barrels? All different smiths or the same? How many different chamber specs? What are the chamber specs? What type of scope(s) are they using? What about the triggers used? Has the spring weight on the plungers been reduced or are they full power? How in tune are the loads? So many variables to say anything conclusively.

That ^ is why Stan is just having fun eating popcorn and drinking beer. LOL!

But if you have “actual” data for a specific setup that can guarantee repeatable results with and without an ejector across all load recipes, please share. Don’t think it will make a difference for me personally but that is the whole point of this thread so have at’er

 

[Dusty Stevens]

 

[Northridge]

How many rifles have you seen this on? How many different types of actions? How many different types of barrels? All different smiths or the same? How many different chamber specs? What are the chamber specs? What type of scope(s) are they using? What about the triggers used? Has the spring weight on the plungers been reduced or are they full power? How in tune are the loads? So many variables to say anything conclusively.

That ^ is why Stan is just having fun eating popcorn and drinking beer. LOL!

But if you have “actual” data for a specific setup that can guarantee repeatable results with and without an ejector across all load recipes, please share. Don’t think it will make a difference for me personally but that is the whole point of this thread so have at’er

Ledd slinger, the OP posted a request in reference to said topic, I responded with what I have found in regard to this topic or dialogue knowing there would be push back and that's ok I expect that. I'm not here to "convince" anyone of my findings that job is up to you "do the work" don't take my word for it, "in order to see you have to believe" if your waiting for others to convince you you'll be left behind. I hope you and Stan find what your looking for..

Shawn Williams

 

[Fuj]

The more I think about this exercise the more I think the
extractor should be in this conversation. Look at it this way ;
The ejector pushes straight forward, while the extractor has
to push sideways to slip over the rim. So now we add another
piece to the accuracy puzzle.....Do we now need to measure
our rim diameters to make sure this process is the same, every
time ??

I switched over to Dorito's and an IPA. May throw a shot of rye
in.

 

[Bc'z]

The more I think about this exercise the more I think the
extractor should be in this conversation. Look at it this way ;
The ejector pushes straight forward, while the extractor has
to push sideways to slip over the rim. So now we add another
piece to the accuracy puzzle.....Do we now need to measure
our rim diameters to make sure this process is the same, every
time ??

I switched over to Dorito's and an IPA. May throw a shot of rye
in.

Have you tried James Oliver? I just learned that my favorite sipping Rye Ghost Owl is actually the very same whiskey only its aged in a old wine barrel giving it a smooth mellow flavor which a hint of sweetness.
In conversation with a another member we were discussing how much .0015" is/isn't when sizing brass to get a proper smooth bolt close. I don't see where I could shoot the difference in some mynute amount of ejector preasure disrupting my accuracy.
On the other hand, I could almost wrap my head around light neck tension with a jammed bullet getting hammered home into battery where it could be possibly be harming accuracy, but to what degree.
Like I said before, I don't know that I could shoot the difference unless its whiskey.

 

[Fuj]

On the other hand, I could almost wrap my head around light neck tension with a jammed bullet getting hammered home into battery where it could be possibly be harming accuracy, but to what degree.
Like I said before, I don't know that I could shoot the difference unless its whiskey.

Now I'm figuring out how you get them paint schemes
coordinated..... Cheap bottle of "George Dickle" graces
my cabinet. I will try your brand when mine runs low,

 

[rwj]

The more I think about this exercise the more I think the
extractor should be in this conversation. Look at it this way ;
The ejector pushes straight forward, while the extractor has
to push sideways to slip over the rim. So now we add another
piece to the accuracy puzzle.....Do we now need to measure
our rim diameters to make sure this process is the same, every
time ??

I switched over to Dorito's and an IPA. May throw a shot of rye
in.

Kinda like these threads… a combination of serious, humorous, and includes good snack and drink suggestions! Not so sure about the Dorito and IPA combo… but a good friend once told me to “try everything twice cause the first time might have been a fluke”!

Regarding extractors, if need be… I make “adjustments” to ensure that it’s not contacting the case head when chambered. Does it matter… who knows! Now back to our regular on/off topic programming… !

 

[Northridge]

Have you tried James Oliver? I just learned that my favorite sipping Rye Ghost Owl is actually the very same whiskey only its aged in a old wine barrel giving it a smooth mellow flavor which a hint of sweetness.View attachment 1323973
In conversation with a another member we were discussing how much .0015" is/isn't when sizing brass to get a proper smooth bolt close. I don't see where I could shoot the difference in some mynute amount of ejector preasure disrupting my accuracy.
On the other hand, I could almost wrap my head around light neck tension with a jammed bullet getting hammered home into battery where it could be possibly be harming accuracy, but to what degree.
Like I said before, I don't know that I could shoot the difference unless its whiskey.

Bc's

The more I think about this exercise the more I think the
extractor should be in this conversation. Look at it this way ;
The ejector pushes straight forward, while the extractor has
to push sideways to slip over the rim. So now we add another
piece to the accuracy puzzle.....Do we now need to measure
our rim diameters to make sure this process is the same, every
time ??

I switched over to Dorito's and an IPA. May throw a shot of rye
in.

FUJ, if you go back far enough you will find the explanation referencing extractors as a part of the equation as well. some types are very passive in capturing rim of case and some are far more positive in the effort of capturing the rim. boy's now I would agree the "Doritos" great choice maybe even the popcorn but that shit your drinking Dam we are clearly addicted to different things.. not sure if i could "drink the difference" lol ill leave that to the pro's

Shawn Williams

 

[Fuj]

Bc's

FUJ, if you go back far enough ......

I probably read it but "Old Timers" disease kicks in and.....
What were we talking about ?? Or it could be the Rye.
Either way. I switched over to coffee and donuts.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Bc's

FUJ, if you go back far enough you will find the explanation referencing extractors as a part of the equation as well. some types are very passive in capturing rim of case and some are far more positive in the effort of capturing the rim. boy's now I would agree the "Doritos" great choice maybe even the popcorn but that shit your drinking Dam we are clearly addicted to different things.. not sure if i could "drink the difference" lol ill leave that to the pro's

Shawn Williams

For sake of argument I’m going to test this hypothetical theory of you guy’s.
But think I already know what the answers are going to be it boils down to barrels and bullets I do have both bolt configurations.
But I will have to shoot both side’s of the bench.LOL

 

[Bc'z]

For sake of argument I’m going to test this hypothetical theory of you guy’s.
But think I already know what the answers are going to be it boils down to barrels and bullets I do have both bolt configurations.
But I will have to shoot both side’s of the bench.LOL
View attachment 1324057

Bulliet is another favorite of mine.
Be sure to sip these from different lots and barrels neat no ice!!

I'm interested in your findings.

 

[Rat Rifle]

For sake of argument I’m going to test this hypothetical theory of you guy’s.
But think I already know what the answers are going to be it boils down to barrels and bullets I do have both bolt configurations.
But I will have to shoot both side’s of the bench.LOL
View attachment 1324057

Stan, always wondered what bullets You were shooting. We know we can’t trust the equipment list. Now Your secret is out

 

[Stan Taylor]

Stan, always wondered what bullets You were shooting. We know we can’t trust the equipment list. Now Your secret is out

Can’t give up all your stuff.LOL
I’m coming out for blood this year. LOL

 

[Rat Rifle]

Can’t give up all your stuff.LOL
I’m coming out for blood this year. LOL

View attachment 1324095

Shot My smallest group and highest score with those pills. I just hope I can afford the gas to come up and watch You smoke everybody.

Guess the ejector question is answered??

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd slinger, the OP posted a request in reference to said topic, I responded with what I have found in regard to this topic or dialogue knowing there would be push back and that's ok I expect that. I'm not here to "convince" anyone of my findings that job is up to you "do the work" don't take my word for it, "in order to see you have to believe" if your waiting for others to convince you you'll be left behind. I hope you and Stan find what your looking for..

Shawn Williams

I’m not asking to be convinced and not trying to imply that your data is not true. I’m just curious as to the types of equipment used in this testing?

Have optics been tested? Are we certain conditions didn’t make a flier? What about an error in form? Is it possible that slamming the bolt is causing the rear cocking piece to jump on the trigger sear creating slightly different ignition? Watching Tom shoot some different fire controls in an action and seeing the targets, there’s no doubt that slight changes in the ignition system can make a pretty significant difference in group patterns, sizes, and points of impact. The ejector can be playing a part but there may be some other factors involved with slamming a bolt hard and fast which contribute equally to any of your findings.

Could even be a reticle shifting in the scope. We all know about certain optics that have been tested and can’t be fully relied upon to hold perfect zero. Not always the case but it’s another possibility

 

[Fuj]

I’m not asking to be convinced and not trying to imply that your data is not true. I’m just curious as to the types of equipment used in this testing?

Have optics been tested? Are we certain conditions didn’t make a flier? What about an error in form? Is it possible that slamming the bolt is causing the rear cocking piece to jump on the trigger sear creating slightly different ignition? Watching Tom shoot some different fire controls in an action and seeing the targets, there’s no doubt that slight changes in the ignition system can make a pretty significant difference in group patterns, sizes, and points of impact. The ejector can be playing a part but there may be some other factors involved with slamming a bolt hard and fast which contribute equally to any of your findings.

Could even be a reticle shifting in the scope. We all know about certain optics that have been tested and can’t be fully relied upon to hold perfect zero. Not always the case but it’s another possibility

And the reason the word "Variables" was invented. There's just
no getting away from it !!

And after looking over the pics that Stan posted, it is confirmed.....
He's a hoarder.....LOL

 

[Albany Mountain]

OCD.

 

[Northridge]

I’m not asking to be convinced and not trying to imply that your data is not true. I’m just curious as to the types of equipment used in this testing?

Have optics been tested? Are we certain conditions didn’t make a flier? What about an error in form? Is it possible that slamming the bolt is causing the rear cocking piece to jump on the trigger sear creating slightly different ignition? Watching Tom shoot some different fire controls in an action and seeing the targets, there’s no doubt that slight changes in the ignition system can make a pretty significant difference in group patterns, sizes, and points of impact. The ejector can be playing a part but there may be some other factors involved with slamming a bolt hard and fast which contribute equally to any of your findings.

Could even be a reticle shifting in the scope. We all know about certain optics that have been tested and can’t be fully relied upon to hold perfect zero. Not always the case but it’s another possibility

Led Slinger, all your stated questions and concerns are legitimate and never leave the "table" when it comes to how I breakdown ladders or targets everything has to be questioned. what we discover over time as we manage tendency's from a given platform or platforms results can and do very from shooter to shooter be it the resolution difference or to what degree the resolution is readable and believable also is on each of us as individual tuners. if the resolution is there great document it through what you "see" not just on one target but through a build up of 1000's of my personal targets that suggest the same thing. like I said before I only have to convince myself in order to manage myself and the direction I or those around me are headed it's a fun pursuit and the resolution is getting smaller.

Shawn Williams