Easy to clean vs tougher to clean barrels

[jelenko]

Is there anything about the barrel itself that makes some barrels easy to get all the carbon out and others not so much?

My experience is with 223 only in an AR.

Since I've been using a borescope, I've gone through ~ ten 24/26" barrels. Similar loads across all the barrels [i.e., high 40K/low 50K psi; bullet weights 69 - 77 gr.

The barrels are/were button rifled; all in the $300 - $375 range. Wilson Arms, Shilens, X Caliber, McGowen, Criterion

Cleaning always starts with 20 strokes of a not well worn bronze brush with Boretech C4.

8 of those barrels required an abrasive to get the carbon out of the throat after 50-70 shots. The carbon build up would show completely black the full width of the grooves from the start of the throat to 2-3 inches in.

2 of those barrels would have little to no black showing in the same area after just brushing with the bronze brush. I only applied abrasive to maintain the throat surface.
These two were from different barrel manufacturers. One was 4 groove, the other 5R.

Is this all just luck of the draw?

Thanks!

 

[ebb]

All the barrels you mentioned and supposed to be pretty smooth inside. If Iwas having this kind of trouble I would be looking for a different powder.

 

[jelenko]

All the barrels you mentioned and supposed to be pretty smooth inside. If Iwas having this kind of trouble I would be looking for a different powder.

Interesting. Powders used were MR2000, 2520, 8208, TAC. Really didn't see any difference among those - except MR2000 seemed to get everything dirtier.

But, why would some clean up easy and other not?

 

[ebb]

Maybe you are right, maybe it is the barrel. Were they all stainless or some chrome moly? I have a friend that s fond of Kreiger's he had one chambered and started shooting it and it was a copper mine. I asked if he was going to send it back, He says no its shoots too good . I eventually smoothed out and shoot great just took about 250 rounds to break in. Some of these mysteries will remain mysteries. My thoughts about powder come from the makers, CFE (copper fowling eliminator). They are trying to make them easier to clen up after, they must know something.

 

[jelenko]

Hmmm. The two that cleaned up easily were both chromoly.

I had thought about that as a factor, but, in reading various posts here, it seemed that most/many people didn't have to use an abrasive as often as I have. I assumed, ahem, that the vast majority were using stainless.

=> Have others found that chromoly cleans up easier than stainless?

In terms of copper - the vast majority of barrels I've used produce little if any copper signs [i.e., blue color on patches soaked with BoreTech copper remover]. They do show a lot of copper towards the end of their accurate life - even with tending to the surface of the throat.
That said, the current chromoly barrel started showing a fair amount of copper from the first shots. I can't remember when the previous chromoly barrel started showing significant copper.

 

[Forum Boss]

Quote: "Cleaning always starts with 20 strokes of a not well worn bronze brush with Boretech C4. 8 of those barrels required an abrasive to get the carbon out of the throat after 50-70 shots."

All I can say is really think about your cleaning methods. I suspect you are way, way overdoing it. I have barrels by Brux, Krieger, Pac-Nor, Bartlein, and Shilen. I use lots of soaking wet patches followed by two applications of Wipe-out foam (I apply once, then wait 15-20 minutes, then apply the foam again, plug the barrel and head home). These barrels then require very minimal brushing thereafter -- three to six one-way strokes typically.

I know people won't believe this, but I think many people can significantly reduce the amount of brushing they are doing. I start the cleaning process AT THE RANGE, while the barrel is still warm. The carbon never is allowed to set up hard. [I have JB and Iosso, but haven't needed to use those abrasives at all on my custom barrels.]

YMMV -- people do what works for them. But what Jelenko describes seems excessive. And based on my discussions with some top shooters in a variety of disciplines, most guys with good, custom, hand-lapped barrels can do a lot less brushing.

 

[jelenko]

Thanks for the tips.
I will try brushing less and check to see.

For me, I only clean after a range session which can be 50 - 100 rounds. I'm not set up for cleaning at the range - already have a bunch of equipment for 'cross the course' that has to be lugged around.

I'll try a few wet patches at the range to see if it helps with the tough to get out carbon.

 

[Martin52]

I'm not set up for cleaning at the range - already have a bunch of equipment for 'cross the course' that has to be lugged around.

At the end of a day at the range try plugging the chamber and just spray a foam solvent into the barrel, tape it at the muzzle. Leave the main clean until you get home.

 

[jelenko]

Just fyi. My rifle is a 'spacegun' - i.e., built on an AR.

I'm going to try keeping a cleaning rod, a few patches, bore guide and solvent in the trunk.
If it really helps, I'll organize it a bit better.

I can confirm that 6 strokes with a bronze brush did work the same as 20 - at least in the barrel that's easy to clean up.
It now has 850 rounds through it and has yet to develop a carbon ring or even carbon covering the throat/first couple inches. I need more barrels like this one.

 

[Big_Daddy]

My Wilson and McGowen barrels clean up easy....

 

[old_heli_logger]

Quote: "Cleaning always starts with 20 strokes of a not well worn bronze brush with Boretech C4. 8 of those barrels required an abrasive to get the carbon out of the throat after 50-70 shots."

All I can say is really think about your cleaning methods. I suspect you are way, way overdoing it. I have barrels by Brux, Krieger, Pac-Nor, Bartlein, and Shilen. I use lots of wet patches followed by two applications of Wipe-out. These barrels then require very minimal brushing thereafter -- three to six one-way strokes typically.

I know people won't believe this, but I think many people can significantly reduce the amount of brushing they are doing. I start the cleaning process AT THE RANGE, while the barrel is still warm. The carbon never is allowed to set up hard. [I have JB and Iosso, but haven't needed to use those abrasives at all on my custom barrels.]

YMMV -- people do what works for them. But what Jelenko describes seems excessive. And based on my discussions with some top shooters in a variety of disciplines, most guys with good, custom, hand-lapped barrels can do a lot less brushing.

Great info, thanks! I wonder if it would help to heat your barrel up at home before cleaning...?

 

[jelenko]

My Wilson and McGowen barrels clean up easy....

What do the throats look like after cleaning?
What are you using to clean?
About how many shots between cleaning?

 

[CharlieNC]

For whatever reason powder residues are quite different and so is the action of various cleaners. My latest disappointment was with Thoro Clean. Following the directions of using the cleaner followed by the abrasive solution, little was removed and the bore still exhibited a bit of carbon as evidenced using the bore scope. A follow-up using FreeAll pushed out a lot of powder residue, then the Thoro abrasive solution did a good job. Same experience with all other cleaning solvents, all I've tried appear to clean but then FreeAll pushes out dirty patches. This is necessary for an abrasive to work efficiently with minimal effort. You need to find the solvent which works best with your powders and let it soak a while to do it's job in order to minimize the required brushing effort.

Also I have trouble accepting carbon "set's up" . Carbonization is a high temperature reaction, why would it become harder at room temperature? Of course immediately applying solvent to a warm barrel will help because the chemical reaction is faster at higher temperature and longer soak time is your friend.

Forum Boss: To show the carbon hardening do this — Within a few minutes of firing, take a fired case. You’ll find you can remove almost all the carbon on the neck with a patch with a tiny drop of spray Ballistol. Try the same thing a few days later and you’ll need a brush with some heavier solvent, or you’ll need to tumble the brass.

I wipe off my cases at the range and never have to tumble. Some tumbling may be advised, however, if you anneal after each firing.

 

[jpx2rk]

Thanks for the tips.
I will try brushing less and check to see.

For me, I only clean after a range session which can be 50 - 100 rounds. I'm not set up for cleaning at the range - already have a bunch of equipment for 'cross the course' that has to be lugged around.

I'll try a few wet patches at the range to see if it helps with the tough to get out carbon.

You could try a "pull thru" patch puller made out of weed eater line (DIY) or one of the commercially available ones, depending on the caliber. The weed eater line will roll up for easy storage, and will fit in a sandwhich baggie. A small bottle of solvent and patches, a traveling cleaning kit. These don't replace the brush, but are convenient and easy to carry. No bore guide needed, etc. but I carry a small fishing tackle bag with small bottles of solvent, patches and jags, and a bore guide. I carry some cleaning rods in a PVC tube with end caps for storage/protection. The rods stay in the bed of the pickup, no damage in 5+ years of travel.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If you know cleaning will happen when home from shooting, IT IS A TIME SAVER to start at the range with a warm barrel. I find that if Varget is being burned, Wipe Out foam and accelerator seem to make cleaning easy. I usually start with Free All and a patch, push the loose stuff out.