E-Targets for F-Class

[Down South]

As more and more clubs are going to E-targets these days what's your thoughts on a delay (7-10 sec) between shots to simulate the target being pulled like using manual targets? I was talking to a friend over the weekend and we were discussing this subject and he was telling me that at the Berger Nationals recently he timed many different pullers with a stop watch to see what was the "Average" time it took to pull the target from the time it started down to the time it hit the top back up. The average time was 10 seconds. I know some pullers are faster but I'm talking about average time. I personally think there should be a delay where you can't just machine gun rounds down range like benchrest but I'm curious to hear what other folks think on the subject.

Another question I have is what's everyone's thoughts on National records on E-Targets being used without a delay? I personally think there should be a separate category for records if shot on E-Targets without a delay. Lets hear it folks.

 

[ShootDots]

Hello Jade! My personal feelings are that IF our intentions are NOT to change F-Class with E-Targets, just make it easier by not having to pull targets, a 10 second delay is necessary. Without a delay, you are NOT shooting F-Class per se! Unless and until this bruhaha is settled, there should be NO National Records set on E-Targets. However, once it is settled and if it turns out that the NRA allows the use of a "no-delay system" then at that point they should be relegated to a separate set of records..

 

[Zilla]

There should be a delay. And I agree, National records on ET's without a delay should be separate.

 

[Lbart]

There should be a delay. And I agree, National records on ET's without a delay should be separate.

+1 David. Unfortunately many records have already been set without delay.

 

[Jdne5b]

Delay, and separate.

I'd even go one further and say.. No delay, No Registered status.

 

[ShootDots]

Delay, and separate.

I'd even go one further and say.. No delay, No Registered status.

I believe you are correct my friend! However, IF (and this is a BIG "IF") the NRA does "sanction" a no-delay system, then it does become a registered match, whether we like it or not. So if they DO allow a no delay registered match, they should make separate the National Records..

 

[skibar_tx]

I believe there should be a delay also, and you should only be able to see your last shot if it is an F-Class or Highpower match.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

+1 for a delay. Ideally a random delay between 7 and 12 seconds, I think that would accurately simulate what would be considered 'good pit service'

 

[Brian H]

As far as National Records on E targets, I personally feel that probably 99.99% of the time, these are set in very light conditions where there just isn't much difference in weather or not there is a delay. In my E target experience, the times where machine gunning really works is in crazy conditions where there are 9s, 8s, and 7s being shot as well, very unlikely that records will be set. I think there is more advantage to those shooters who live near "protected ranges" where there is very little wind. This seems as much as an unfair advantage as the case for no delay e targets. Feel free to weigh in, this is just my opinion.

 

[Jdne5b]

I believe you are correct my friend! However, IF (and this is a BIG "IF") the NRA does "sanction" a no-delay system, then it does become a registered match, whether we like it or not. So if they DO allow a no delay registered match, they should make separate the National Records..

It could be "Approved" where it's not eligible for records, but allows scores to be submitted for classification and such. I'm okay with that, just not the records eligible sanctioning which is believe is called Registered vs Approved.

 

[bholcomb]

There should absolutely be a delay in the e targets and I also agree it shouldn’t be a registered match without a delay and no national records should be set with a no delay system unless the NRA for some crazy reason approves it and then they should be in a separate category. Fclass is supposed to test a shooters ability to read the wind/conditions and when you can machine gun fire a string, in my opinion, it’s not fclass anymore. I enjoy shooting on e targets and I think a random delay would be great. Not to get off subject either, but I think pair firing would be fun too.

 

[M99]

I don't think it matters in the slightest. F-Class is not really like BR since we must shoot a 20 shot string, not a 5 or 10 shot string, and we are laying prone, where it takes us longer to get set properly between shots anyway, then when sitting at a bench. Nearly all of the better F-Class shooters do take near 10 seconds between shots at the minimum anyway. If some attempt to "machine gun" 20 shots to stay "within a condition" just the heating up of their barrel after the first 10 or so will cause the gun to shoot differently, and they won't be set properly for some of those shots. To my way of thinking, its an argument about nothing.

If we want an argument about which sets of rules are proper, how about pulling all those HM classifications that early F-Class shooters got while shooting at double size targets and with lower averages required?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Whenever possible, just stick with paper. Otherwise, 10 s is about right.

 

[Medic505]

To my way of thinking, its an argument about nothing.

It's obvious you've never scored or pulled targets for David Gosnell. (and that's not a knock on you David, you just happen to be the fastest gun in the West)

If we want an argument about which sets of rules are proper, how about pulling all those HM classifications that early F-Class shooters got while shooting at double size targets and with lower averages required?

Maybe because 98% of those "Oldtimers" are shooting High Master scores today?

 

[Medic505]

 

[Jdne5b]

dead horse

Leave it to Jade to bring this back up..

 

[Jennb]

I have shot both with and without and I dont shoot fast enough for it to make any difference delay or not. Seeing only the last shot is simulating what we have done for years and it should be that way IMO.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

If we want an argument about which sets of rules are proper, how about pulling all those HM classifications that early F-Class shooters got while shooting at double size targets and with lower averages required?

I think you're misinformed. When the NRA sanctioned F-Class in 2007, they issued the targets that we have now and they started the classifications with the same percentages being used right now. There is no such thing as an early F-class shooter classified under rules different than the ones we have now.

The "controversy" that has popped up a few times has been about the fact there is no difference in qualification requirements between F-Open shooters and F-TR shooters. I do know there are some people who attained HM status in F-Open and then switched over to F-TR retaining their HM status. I don't have and have never had a problem with that. I've been stuck at Master - Long Range for at least 6 years, and I'm fine with that. Most days I struggle just getting any type of score on target. Big deal. Sometimes I do well and kick HM butt, most times I don't. I do not question anyone's classification.

 

[Nowhere Man]

If we are adding time to imitate pulling targets, why not move the target to imitate mirage? Or, give the shooter an occasional 8 to imitate change in wind direction?

 

[Doug Beach]

If we are adding time to imitate pulling targets, why not move the target to imitate mirage? Or, give the shooter an occasional 8 to imitate change in wind direction?

Huh? E targets don’t change either of those problems.