Don't want to HIGH-JACK a thread

[riflewoman]

Here’s one...you could probably store a lot of powder in that top.

https://www.earthtechproducts.com/t...dVydXURsrFm9BP8zQl11lAMfUfXcZeBRoC-TkQAvD_BwE

 

[Dusty Stevens]

An air purifying respirator or filter system wont help with an oxygen deficient atmosphere like when a fire sucks it all up. Youd need an scba for each person along with some type of scrubber ventilation system. If money is no object it shouldnt be an issue. Around here in tornado alley some folks have storm shelters underneath their garage floors. Keeps the rain out but you stand a chance of being trapped by debris. Be sure to let folks know youre going to be in there if something happens.

 

[Outrider27]

They stay in submarines hundreds of feet down, Do they suffocate? Post says with "todays building materials". That would include air filtration or fresh air system. A basic under ground safe.........

This is not meant to disparage your comment, only to point out that there is much complication and expense to achieve the breathable atmosphere in a submarine.

I won't write a detailed answer, as it would take 10 pages or more, but I worked in submarine fluid system design and life cycle management for a few months short of 30 years. I can assure you that they don't just "stay in submarines hundreds of feet down"; the multiple systems needed to support breathable air in the necessary quantities are big, extensive and expensive, and an extensive air filtration system is only one one of several major systems required. The cost of outfitting a safe room of the type suggested in this thread will make the cost of the room itself pale by comparison IF one wants to be able to make the breathing air supply for the room independent of and uncontaminated by the outside atmosphere, as on a submarine. Making it so only for fire emergencies would reduce the cost somewhat, but it would still cost huge bucks to do it for a system that would support life for more than a few hours - a few hours could be done with multiple SCUBA tanks and a regulator and mouthpiece for each person (and shutting down the outside air system). You pays your money and you takes your choice, but in this case, complete independence for any length of time over 4-8 hours is going to be very large.

 

[PigButtons]

Just build a solid concrete home. All polycarbonate windows, galvanized steel window and door frames. The smoke from a major forest fire might be an issue, other natural disasters...not so much. And the framing for the deck and rails is also galvanized steel.

 

[carlsbad]

Underground you'll need tanked oxygen and a supply system. Just don't get an oxygen leak with a fire. It's a tad acccelerant.

 

[sdean]

Underground you'll need tanked oxygen and a supply system. Just don't get an oxygen leak with a fire. It's a tad acccelerant.

Scuba gear is tanked air. I don’t see why you would need pure oxygen.

 

[284winner]

After being a paid structural fire fighter for 21 years believe me when I say a fire will go from being contained with a glass full of water to having many lines stretched in the street in a matter of seconds. So when you get a warning get out Please.
But not why I'm posting, I have a question.
Have any of you built or thought about an under ground room for storing your valuables or staying in during natural disasters. I believe 16-18 inches under the surface will give you all the protection you would need. With todays building materials it could be made water resistant, temperature stable and very livable to wait out the danger.
Now at 68 and battling some major health issues I am not looking to do this. I happen to live in the NE, southern New England and we really don't have many natural disasters, an occasional hurricane and a blizzard every couple years and maybe a tornado once in a while so really no need for one.
Just curious to hear your thoughts with out the thought of cost because you can not equate $$$ to lives.

I have an acquaintance that built the basement out of poured concrete and was going to build a house on top of it but his plans changed. Instead he covered the basement with floor joists treated plywood and rubber and lived in that basement as his house for probably the last 25 years. Not sure why if money was an issue or what but he has lived there comfortably for quite a long time. I don't see why somebody could not cover that dwelling with 3 ft of dirt and had an access location entering that basement.

 

[carlsbad]

Scuba gear is tanked air. I don’t see why you would need pure oxygen.

Air is 4/5 nitrogen. So if you have compressed air instead of oxygen, you need 5x as much. I was thinking of adding oxygen to a room full of people to keep oxygen at 20% or so. Not easy. Instrumentation will be required. You're thinking of having everyone in a SCBA. I've used SCBAs in nuclear applications. You'll need a lot of expensive tanks and rigs. Neither way is easy or cheap.

 

[PigButtons]

I have an acquaintance that built the basement out of poured concrete and was going to build a house on top of it but his plans changed. Instead he covered the basement with floor joists treated plywood and rubber and lived in that basement as his house for probably the last 25 years. Not sure why if money was an issue or what but he has lived there comfortably for quite a long time. I don't see why somebody could not cover that dwelling with 3 ft of dirt and had an access location entering that basement.

My friend just outside of Atlanta did almost the same thing, except he built a two story house over it that sits vacant to this day.

 

[ED3]

Me too.
Thinking along the same principles, say big enough for a family of 5.
Never mentioned nuclear subs. A basic air inlet with a filtration system would work, maybe along the lines of a Hepa filtering system.

You'll need more than "... A basic air inlet with a filtration system...".

Any fire moving through will consume the available Oxygen a human would need.
Weird stuff to the human body and brain when Oxygen (O2) content of the air drops even a little.
No practical filtration system can remove Carbon Monoxide, either, which is beyond an asphyxiant - it is a poison.
As was previously posted, a SCBA system would be minimally required for each occupant for the duration of the event. And then I would wonder how long it takes for the immediate surroundings to be cool enough to be safe.

 

[people]

Root sellers usually provide enough protection for fast moving fires. Unless you are cramming in a bunch of people in there just block the air vents and once you should be fine for a little while.

Longer term survival breathing can be an issue. Everyone loves trees but cut them back from your house and it will help.

If you live in a forest and there is a chance of forest fire. Having something under ground can easily protect your stuff. Your safety is more easily protected by evacuation.

I have seen one of those fast moving grass fires twice. 40 or 50 mph winds super dry. Having a house that is made with fire resistant materials usually is enough to save it.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Build a panic room. This will protect you from storms and the like, as well as unwanted forced intrusions. For fire, evacuate. Why stay? If the fire reaches you, there won't be anything to come back to anyway.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

We just had this installed at a substation you cant leave easily (inside a nuclear plant). Its so nice i have made it my office on a few occasions

 

[carlsbad]

Dusty, Is the a spare transformer behind the shelter? I've seen energized ones explode and there is a lot of shrapnel. We actually put an armored wall between our transformers so if one goes, it doesn't take out the other ones.

We don't limit passage/walking around the transformers but we would not approve occupancy.

--Jerry

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty, Is the a spare transformer behind the shelter? I've seen energized ones explode and there is a lot of shrapnel. We actually put an armored wall between our transformers so if one goes, it doesn't take out the other ones.

We don't limit passage/walking around the transformers but we would not approve occupancy.

--Jerry

Yes its in a laydown yard on a pad but not hooked up except the heaters. Its a little 161/23kv startup transformer

 

[rjtfroggy]

Responses went into the twi light zone on this one. Great most of you think outside of the box.
Now to be honest I have never fought a forest fire, plenty of brush fires and way to many structure fires but my understanding is a forest fire moves fast, very fast. So in all probability you would only need a couple hours of breathing air. A bomb shelter type of structure under at least a foot of earth should be good for all your valuables and you and your loved ones.
But I have to agree with some, almost everything can be replaced except life. Store your stuff ( what guns they were destroyed in the fire ) and get the hell out, better to say I survived that one than others saying gee that's a shame he /she was a great guy.

 

[butchlambert]

So if Wife and I put on our scuba gear and lay on the bottom of my fishing pond., We could outlast most fires.Chuckle chuckle

 

[hpshooter]

" A basic air inlet with a filtration system would work, maybe along the lines of a Hepa filtering system."

This thread started in reference to fires, the outside air will be very hot for the period of time the fire is burning anywhere near the subterranean shelter. Much hotter than can be safely breathed into your lungs. Air will have to com from compressed storage and there will have to be a way to discharge the CO from the shelter.

All doable but not inexpensive and deadly if not properly designed. At minimum, a good exercise in mental mast---tion.

 

[jonbearman]

If I had the money I wouldnt hesitate to put in a system like that. We had a microburst in 99 and it did a lot of damage including 8 foot tears in my roof destroying the siding , broken windows etc etc etc. I did it for 16,000.00 doing the work myself with my brother and allstate still cried. However I wanted it done right instead of butchering it back together. I have thought about a vault room with fresh air, heat ,toilet and lights with a natural gas generator.

 

[rr2030]

Looking online, it appears the companies that produce in ground fire shelters claim that 48 cu ft, will provide enough O2 for 6 people for 1 hour. Would a person be in a fire for more than 1 hour? From what I have seen around here, a home is gone in less than 15 minuets, some of the surrounding vegetation may last a bit longer. I suppose if it were a concern a few SCUBA or a welding tank with oxygen could be used to augment the O2 supply? Radiant heat appears to be a prime concern.