Does anyone shoot ELR with a 284?

[SKWERLZ]

Interesting thread. I think this really depends on what you call ELR. There are many folks that think shooting 1000 yards in long range, or that a mile would be ELR, but the ELR in my area starts at 2000 yards.

They have very few people, even with 338 Lapua hitting the targets at 2000 yards. And if more than one person is able to get on paper at that distance, they move up to 3000 yards.

You get to a point that only 375 CheyTac up to 50 BMG (not a very good ELR cartridge) are pretty much all that will fetch out to that distance.

So the $64k question is, what do you consider to be ELR?

For me and center fire cartridges it’s past a mile.
My first mile hit was with a 260
First 2 mile was with a 7 saum
Did 4100 yards with my 338 edge.
Slowly getting parts for a 37XC but economy it stalling it a bit.

1000 yards would be ELR with a 22LR

 

[SKWERLZ]

This is not true for ELR in my area. I'm in Northern California and ELR is shot in Upper Lake, CA and is sponsored by the Sheriff. The mountains are hard pack and the wind can kick up at any time. It is very hard to see impacts on dirt, even with multiple spotters. That said, they will let you shoot 6.5 Creedmoor if you like. The chances are pretty small of getting on target, and I bet 284 will be similar.

I’m in the PNW and while mirage is better than many areas the mountain/valley setting with winds and vegetation and wettish dirt makes things interesting.
We hang steel on large rock outcroppings when possible.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I’m in the PNW and while mirage is better than many areas the mountain/valley setting with winds and vegetation and wettish dirt makes things interesting.
We hang steel on large rock outcroppings when possible.

I think the wetter climate must make a difference. There can be a lot of mirage in NorCal, it gets hot on the Central Valley side of the mountains. There is not a lot of choice for people interested in ELR in California, only SoCal or NorCal, and it's a loooooonnnnnng state.

I just joined Konocti Rod & Gun Club, they only have a 200 yard range, and coincidentally it is owned by the Sheriff. Not all of California is hostile to firearms. In fact, Lake County has been pro-issue on CCW for a number of years.

NOTE: I just submitted to change my name to Konocti's Wigwam to align with my YouTube channel and name I use on other firearm related sites. I used to use liber, but this is the last account I had using that name. If my name changes, that's why. It is pending approval from the Boss.

 

[ShaunBrady]

Interesting thread. I think this really depends on what you call ELR. There are many folks that think shooting 1000 yards in long range, or that a mile would be ELR, but the ELR in my area starts at 2000 yards.

They have very few people, even with 338 Lapua hitting the targets at 2000 yards. And if more than one person is able to get on paper at that distance, they move up to 3000 yards.

Interesting thread. I think this really depends on what you call ELR. There are many folks that think shooting 1000 yards in long range, or that a mile would be ELR, but the ELR in my area starts at 2000 yards.

They have very few people, even with 338 Lapua hitting the targets at 2000 yards. And if more than one person is able to get on paper at that distance, they move up to 3000 yards.

Sort of.....

The URSA group that shoots out of Upper Lake is basically 4-6 guys shooting by the side of the road in the National Forest. They're not a bad place to start or to meet other shooters, but they're not well regarded in the ELR world and nobody really cares how they define ELR.

They're shooting a 37" round target and start at just beyond 2000 yards. If, and only if, 2 shooters get 4 hits out of 10, those shooters move on to a nominal 2500 yards. People that show up thinking that the 338 Lapua headstamp alone will produce hits are usually disappointed. There is often a regular that can do it if the conditions aren't completely upside down. Most of them moved on to 338LI or 300 Norma after the first 338 Lapua barrel died. There is a "qualifying" round where 3/10 are needed to move to the "match" Prior to "qualifying", there are 10 practice shots divided into 7 and 3. The final 3 are shot as sighters before the 10 qualifying shots. So you have 20 shots at the match target before the match even begins and they shoot the same targets from the same location every month.

I shot up there with a few friends 6-7 years ago. It wasn't a regular match. We used my 20"x 30" practice target. It was deer season and we had to wait until after lunch for the road hunters to clear out. We shot 2 ten shot strings each, no sighters and everybody had at least 3 hits in 6-12 mph winds. One shooter was using a 284. It was just after the introduction of the LabRadar and I spent the next several years trying to figure out how he produced velocity extreme spreads in the low teens for consecutive 10 shot strings. One of the reasons to attend matches is to meet other shooters. Iron sharpens iron.

You get to a point that only 375 CheyTac up to 50 BMG (not a very good ELR cartridge) are pretty much all that will fetch out to that distance.

So the $64k question is, what do you consider to be ELR?

EDIT: IMO, the best chance of getting on target with 30 cal would be 300 PRC, and that is just my opinion.

33XC is taking over the light gun classes. 416 Barrett is probably the most capable if you can stand the additional cost and master the 50bmg case technology. There are a few large rifle magnum primer cases emerging in 416 and 458 bores that look very competitive.

I'm going to suggest that ELR is whatever it takes to motivate you to push yourself away from the keyboard and get you heading towards the range. For me, it was a mile. A number that will give better results than an arbitrary distance is 1000 fps. Pull something out of the safe that you already have and figure out how far you have to shoot to bring the bullet down to 1000 fps. Go to work figuring out what it takes to clean a 1.5-2 moa target at that distance. 223 shooting 77smk works great. Every step larger just requires more expensive optics, locations that are harder to find and a narrower range of conditions you can shoot in.

That process will bring a lot of clarity when deciding on your first dedicated ELR gun. Not very glamorous and the internet bragging rights really are not there, but it's a brutally efficient way to learn the game.

EDIT: IMO, the best chance of getting on target with 30 cal would be 300 PRC, and that is just my opinion.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/recap-of-the-ursa-norcal-jan-22-event.4055530/

That was a pretty extreme example of a shooting order win. The conditions were deteriorating fast and I shot early. It's best to remember that sword cuts both ways.

A 26" 300PRC also won an annual 3K match at the SoCal range in heavy winds a couple years ago.

Nothing magical about the 300PRC. Insignificantly better ballistics than the 338 Lapua, but less recoil. I was shooting Hornady brass and the ammo would feed from the magazine.

 

[ShaunBrady]

There is not a lot of choice for people interested in ELR in California, only SoCal or NorCal, and it's a loooooonnnnnng state.

Another reason to attend matches and meet other shooters. In addition to the URSA shooting spot, which is on public land and accessible to anyone with a target. I'm aware of 3 ranges that have targets at a mile or more within 90 minutes of your location. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more. They require personal invitations though.

 

[ShaunBrady]

This is not true for ELR in my area. I'm in Northern California and ELR is shot in Upper Lake, CA and is sponsored by the Sheriff. The mountains are hard pack and the wind can kick up at any time. It is very hard to see impacts on dirt, even with multiple spotters. That said, they will let you shoot 6.5 Creedmoor if you like. The chances are pretty small of getting on target, and I bet 284 will be similar.

That shooting spot is not sponsored by the Sheriff. It's in the National Forest. Both the Sheriff's Deputies and Park Rangers have observed events and not interfered or harassed anyone. Tacit approval, but no sponsorship.

I have seen that range give 6' dust plumes from 105 Hybrids out of a 26" 6XC. It went 3/12 on a 40"x 30" plate. I've also been there when the same backstop ate 800 grain solids without a burp.

Spotting is a combination of optics, backstop composition including moisture, lighting, and mirage. An experienced spotter is better than anything. Bigger bullets do extend the range of conditions you can shoot into, but the difference between 30 and 338 isn't as big as it's made out to be. Same for comparing 338 and 375. I'll take a 30 shooting jacketed bullets over a 375 with solids for some conditions. The right solids can have unmatched ballistic uniformity but have really bad spotting characteristics. Their signature on painted plates is much lower than pasted jacketed bullets. On sloped backstops they can "gopher". They hit under the plate, hit a rock in the backstop that launches them back out of the dirt and produce a signature behind and above the plate. If the plate sloped and isn't reactive enough, they can ricochet downward and produce a long narrow plume below the target. The URSA plate is 125#. Skips into the plate can be hard to figure out at distance.

The mirage on that range isn't terrible because you're shooting ridge to ridge and most of the LOS is hundreds of feed above ground level. It was worse after a fire burned way the ground cover but it's getting better.

The lighting can suck because the range points nearly due east and they start soon after dawn. The target is in shadow for a couple hours after sunrise. A sunshade on the scope helps. A canopy is even better. In addition to the mirage, on brighter days the target and backstop image can become blown out and loose contrast. Apertures on the rifle scope help. I use heavy ND, Haze, and polarizing filters on my spotting scope and camera to bring some contrast back. Digital filters in the camera will also enhance contrast.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

That shooting spot is not sponsored by the Sheriff. It's in the National Forest. Both the Sheriff's Deputies and Park Rangers have observed events and not interfered or harassed anyone. Tacit approval, but no sponsorship.

Maybe so, but Lynn told me it was sponsored by the Sheriff, even though it is on BLM land. I've heard the Sheriff is pro-issue on CCW also, but I'm not sure I need one.

I plan to hunt North Cow Mountain possibly.

but the difference between 30 and 338 isn't as big as it's made out to be. Same for comparing 338 and 375. I'll take a 30 shooting jacketed bullets over a 375 with solids for some conditions.

I agree, but would take the 375 given the slight difference in powder. Projectiles are about the same cost.

I do remember you being one of the people that mentioned how how it is to get on target.

Do you think the 30 cal is the right cartridge? I think the 300 PRC would be good for the 2000. But the point is that a lot of people think 1000 yards is ELR, so it's subjective, IMO.

Either way, ELR doesn't matter for me until I can complete bolt actions. I don't plan to shoot over 300 yards for at least a couple years.

Have you shot at Konocti Rod & Gun club before? I was told the Sheriff own that range. Lake County is like 180 degrees from where I currently live.

Don't you shoot 300 Norma? You think that's a better cartridge than the 375 CheyTac for Upper Lake?

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Sort of.....

The URSA group that shoots out of Upper Lake is basically 4-6 guys shooting by the side of the road in the National Forest. They're not a bad place to start or to meet other shooters, but they're not well regarded in the ELR world and nobody really cares how they define ELR.

I'll be honest, Lynn pretty much talked me out of Upper Lake until I can get the 375. I think it will be a time sync, hence my nod to Hunting for the time being. I did ask Lynn about pig hunting over in Santa Rosa/Ukiah recently, he said there's a lot of pigs around.

They're shooting a 37" round target and start at just beyond 2000 yards

Maybe they changed, or maybe I misunderstood him.

I'm not disputing the difficulty, in fact, I think more so I'm shying away from it until I can build a 375 CheyTac. I do have a bolt and blank.

People that show up thinking that the 338 Lapua headstamp alone will produce hits are usually disappointed.

Funny enough, I have 4 bolt blanks. One is long enough for a 300 PRC (or similar). But I originally planned to build a 6.5 PRC for short action. I want to build the first one in 6.5 Creedmoor as I have parts for that. Then I have a set for 375 CheyTac, it's a Stiller PTG bolt. I bought it with the blank from a guy I know.

I shot up there with a few friends 6-7 years ago. It wasn't a regular match. We used my 20"x 30" practicetarget.

That might be what Lynn said they use. He cautioned me with 30 cal and said it's very difficult to see the splash.

It was just after the introduction of the LabRadar and I spent the next several years trying to figure out how he produced velocity extreme spreads in the low teens for consecutive 10 shot strings.

I just ordered one, it will be here tomorrow. I'm working on some

33XC is taking over the light gun classes. 416 Barrett is probably the most capable if you can stand the additional cost and master the 50bmg case technology. There are a few large rifle magnum primer cases emerging in 416 and 458 bores that look very competitive.

Lynn kinda made it sound like 375 CheyTac or 416 was the choice, unless I want to waste my time.

I'm going to suggest that ELR is whatever it takes to motivate you to push yourself away from the keyboard and get you heading towards the range.

Indeed, Lynn said he would let me shoot 6.5 Creedmoor if I wanted...just doesn't seem the cartridge at all. Even if it could get to a mile (1800 yards) , I think it would struggle for 2000 yards.

If anything, I think you are an encouragement to think about either 300 PRC or 33XC, I think both of those fit in a long magnum action. Are people shooting 33XC in Upper Lake do you know?

 

[SKWERLZ]

I'll be honest, Lynn pretty much talked me out of Upper Lake until I can get the 375. I think it will be a time sync, hence my nod to Hunting for the time being. I did ask Lynn about pig hunting over in Santa Rosa/Ukiah recently, he said there's a lot of pigs around.


Maybe they changed, or maybe I misunderstood him.

I'm not disputing the difficulty, in fact, I think more so I'm shying away from it until I can build a 375 CheyTac. I do have a bolt and blank.

Funny enough, I have 4 bolt blanks. One is long enough for a 300 PRC (or similar). But I originally planned to build a 6.5 PRC for short action. I want to build the first one in 6.5 Creedmoor as I have parts for that. Then I have a set for 375 CheyTac, it's a Stiller PTG bolt. I bought it with the blank from a guy I know.


That might be what Lynn said they use. He cautioned me with 30 cal and said it's very difficult to see the splash.


I just ordered one, it will be here tomorrow. I'm working on some


Lynn kinda made it sound like 375 CheyTac or 416 was the choice, unless I want to waste my time.

Indeed, Lynn said he would let me shoot 6.5 Creedmoor if I wanted...just doesn't seem the cartridge at all. Even if it could get to a mile (1800 yards) , I think it would struggle for 2000 yards.

If anything, I think you are an encouragement to think about either 300 PRC or 33XC, I think both of those fit in a long magnum action. Are people shooting 33XC in Upper Lake do you know?

You’ll probably more issues spotting than getting a 6.5 bullet there.
But if conditions are decent, your solver has a fairly accurate curve and you have enough elevation getting close or hits on steel is certainly doable.

Try it, ELR with smaller calibers is quite fun

Going to be trying my 6BRA soon at 1820 yards.
Should need 27-28 mils up.
I have 26.8 available on that scope so with a bit of reticle I won’t need the Charlie tarac for elevation.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

You’ll probably more issues spotting than getting a 6.5 bullet there.
But if conditions are decent, your solver has a fairly accurate curve and you have enough elevation getting close or hits on steel is certainly doable.

My thinking was that the 6.5 projectile is definitely capable of the distance, but the Creedmoor case just doesn't have enough powder in it. Maybe something like a 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.

Shaun makes a good point that 300 PRC, 300 Norma or XC33 would probably be a better option for most people. The question really gets down to how practical 375 CheyTac is for most people.

Try it, ELR with smaller calibers is quite fun

Going to be trying my 6BRA soon at 1820 yards.
Should need 27-28 mils up.
I have 26.8 available on that scope so with a bit of reticle I won’t need the Charlie tarac for elevation.

No question that 1 miles will test the 6BRA, where it's more common for people to shoot 1/2 that distance. I would think breaking through the sound barrier would test the stability.

I would be first to admit that most of the mentioned cartridges are more practical for most people, rather than 375 CheyTac, but LynnD was telling me that he used to shoot some of those and is now shooting a 375 CheyTac himself. My problem is I'm just finishing up my shop in Lake County and it's gonna be a bit until I can get my machines moved and setup with power, to be in a position to build them. I'm just trying to be a realist. Because of that, Hunting seems like a better option until I have more time.

If you can get on target at 1 mile with 6BRA, that will be encouraging for me.

 

[SKWERLZ]

My thinking was that the 6.5 projectile is definitely capable of the distance, but the Creedmoor case just doesn't have enough powder in it. Maybe something like a 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.

Shaun makes a good point that 300 PRC, 300 Norma or XC33 would probably be a better option for most people. The question really gets down to how practical 375 CheyTac is for most people.

No question that 1 miles will test the 6BRA, where it's more common for people to shoot 1/2 that distance. I would think breaking through the sound barrier would test the stability.

I would be first to admit that most of the mentioned cartridges are more practical for most people, rather than 375 CheyTac, but LynnD was telling me that he used to shoot some of those and is now shooting a 375 CheyTac himself. My problem is I'm just finishing up my shop in Lake County and it's gonna be a bit until I can get my machines moved and setup with power, to be in a position to build them. I'm just trying to be a realist. Because of that, Hunting seems like a better option until I have more time.

If you can get on target at 1 mile with 6BRA, that will be encouraging for me.

Whether your 6.5 bullet are at creedmoor speeds or 26 nosler speeds spotting will stay the same.

I’ve already had the 107 smk at 1525 yards and it was fairly easy so not expecting much more difficulty.

Biggest reason for 375, 416. And 460 calibers is spotting.

My 338 is a 338 edge, bit faster than 338 lapua and with 265 and 285 solids at 2950-3000 fps ballistics are impressive.

My favorite ELR choice for new shooters is a 7mm magnum of some sorts, mild recoil and ease of shooting trumps the ballistics of a 338 or bigger in that situation.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

The reason for the 375 CheyTac is that I have the bolt and blank to build it. I don't have the barrel yet, so I could change my mind. Right now, I don't see a reason not to build it.

I see your point on the 7mm mag of sorts, like the 7mm PRC might be something I would consider for a hunting rifle, but for ELR the 300 PRC has a larger projectile, probably easier to spot, and XC33 could fit the same action. I'd like to think I'll be building one soon, when I get my shop in place, but I have a lot of work to do and I have a few rifles/pistols that will work well for hunting. ELR needs to be put on the backburner for now. Don't want to mislead anyone.

 

[ShaunBrady]

I'll be honest, Lynn pretty much talked me out of Upper Lake until I can get the 375. I think it will be a time sync, hence my nod to Hunting for the time being. I did ask Lynn about pig hunting over in Santa Rosa/Ukiah recently, he said there's a lot of pigs around.

Maybe they changed, or maybe I misunderstood him.

I'm not disputing the difficulty, in fact, I think more so I'm shying away from it until I can build a 375 CheyTac. I do have a bolt and blank.

If anything, I think you are an encouragement to think about either 300 PRC or 33XC, I think both of those fit in a long magnum action. Are people shooting 33XC in Upper Lake do you know?

Lynn isn't one to let facts get in the way of a good opinion, but I seriously doubt he intended to talk you out of shooting with them until you get a 375 running. You can go to the URSA website and see all the guns, bullets, and cartridges that have generated shooter points. Those are recorded for 5 hits in 10 shots. 33 shooters have done it since April 2015, 7 have maxed out at 5 shooter points at 2000 yards. Only 2 have shooter points at 2500 yards. A 2500 yard shooter point requires 6/10. Some URSA trivia:

The first 3 shooter points were with 300wm, 7wsm, and 338 Lapua. Number 4 was a pretty accomplished 50bmg 1000 yard guy. The 7wsm score on the 2000 yard target wasn't matched for many years. The current high score on the 2500 yard target was shot with a 300 Norma and is likely to stand for a very long time. The last match of this year was won with a 33XC. I'm not sure if that 33XC is on its second or third barrel, but the first is long gone. I have a shooter point with my first 33XC barrel. It was solidly in the denial phase of barrel life and didn't out score the 300 PRC RPR I shot in the earlier match. The RPR still has its Ruger barrel. The 2500 yard shooter points were generated with a 338LI and a 300 Norma. They both used the ATips. There are 375CT shooter points, but it's a long way from the only game in town.

33XC won't fit in a CIP AICS magazine. Most single load for ELR even if the round does fit. 300 Norma is pretty much the highest performing standard cartridge that fits in a CIP magazine with the bullet seated out in the neck and even with that, it's only with the 230s. The 33XC probably isn't the best idea for starting out because it's only 1 step away from a very short barrel life. Too much pressure and double base powders are 2 steps. The same is pretty true for any of the popular ELR cartridges.

It's very straightforward to generate the low velocity and BC spreads that are so important to ELR with the 375CT. The temptation is to try for big velocities and to use the bullet with the highest BC you can find. Getting that out of your system is a lot more expensive with the 375CT. Have at least 1 spare extractor for that Stiller bolt. Read and accept as fact the bolt nose clearance Stiller specifies or the extractor might not make it through the first box of ammo. If I was shooting one, I'd have 2 and one of everything else required to populate a stripped bolt.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Lynn isn't one to let facts get in the way of a good opinion, but I seriously doubt he intended to talk you out of shooting with them until you get a 375 running. You can go to the URSA website and see all the guns, bullets, and cartridges that have generated shooter points. Those are recorded for 5 hits in 10 shots. 33 shooters have done it since April 2015, 7 have maxed out at 5 shooter points at 2000 yards. Only 2 have shooter points at 2500 yards. A 2500 yard shooter point requires 6/10. Some URSA trivia:

The first 3 shooter points were with 300wm, 7wsm, and 338 Lapua. Number 4 was a pretty accomplished 50bmg 1000 yard guy. The 7wsm score on the 2000 yard target wasn't matched for many years. The current high score on the 2500 yard target was shot with a 300 Norma and is likely to stand for a very long time. The last match of this year was won with a 33XC. I'm not sure if that 33XC is on its second or third barrel, but the first is long gone. I have a shooter point with my first 33XC barrel. It was solidly in the denial phase of barrel life and didn't out score the 300 PRC RPR I shot in the earlier match. The RPR still has its Ruger barrel. The 2500 yard shooter points were generated with a 338LI and a 300 Norma. They both used the ATips. There are 375CT shooter points, but it's a long way from the only game in town.

33XC won't fit in a CIP AICS magazine. Most single load for ELR even if the round does fit. 300 Norma is pretty much the highest performing standard cartridge that fits in a CIP magazine with the bullet seated out in the neck and even with that, it's only with the 230s. The 33XC probably isn't the best idea for starting out because it's only 1 step away from a very short barrel life. Too much pressure and double base powders are 2 steps. The same is pretty true for any of the popular ELR cartridges.

It's very straightforward to generate the low velocity and BC spreads that are so important to ELR with the 375CT. The temptation is to try for big velocities and to use the bullet with the highest BC you can find. Getting that out of your system is a lot more expensive with the 375CT. Have at least 1 spare extractor for that Stiller bolt. Read and accept as fact the bolt nose clearance Stiller specifies or the extractor might not make it through the first box of ammo. If I was shooting one, I'd have 2 and one of everything else required to populate a stripped bolt.

My friend who runs a few stillers has half a dozen extractors as spares.
Especially for the cheytac boltface.


That the 7WSM did well is not surprising, my 7 saum will easily keep every ten shot string SD in single digits (7 is the norm with a few 6’s) and the BC variation of the Berger 190 LRHT is very good.
Add mild recoil and acceptable barrel life to the mix and you have a fun and affordable ELR start.

Similar situation with 300 Norma, I have more experience with 338 Norma and it’s a very easy cartridge to deal with, pick a powder with decent case fill and it just shoots.
If the 300 version is half as good it’s another easy peasy option especially since there’s a few more case options now.
The older Norma cases are kinda meh.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Lynn isn't one to let facts get in the way of a good opinion

Ouch! I will say in Lynn's defense that he was one of the few people to be nice to me. Not saying everything he says is correct, but he does run the ELR in Upper Lake. From what you say the Sheriff are not involved in it. I have no experience shooting at those distances. I don't own any bolt actions until I make them.

but I seriously doubt he intended to talk you out of shooting with them until you get a 375 running.

I shouldn't have said it like I did, Lynn said he would encourage me to come up to Upper Lake and even if I didn't bring my own rifle, he said he would bring one I could shoot if I wanted. Honestly that is more than anyone else has offered me. I wasn't sure if I could even get up there, but he said a guy drives up there in a Prius. I have a 2WD Tacoma.

I have a shooter point with my first 33XC barrel.

Can I ask, what reamers do you use? I have only bought PTG reamers, I only have 2. I have one for 6.5 Creedmoor and one for 8.6 blackout. I heard PTG supplies the reamers to Redding, so thought I would be safe with that combination.

33XC won't fit in a CIP AICS magazine.

When you say CIP AICS mag, are you talking about 6.5 PRC length? 2.955 COAL ? I know those will fit in the AICS, but wasn't sure what you refer to with CIP, typically most smiths seem to wait for SAAMI.

Anyway, I could go with various builds using the bolts and blanks I have. Not really locked into any of them, other than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not really locked into it, but have a 1.25" straight barrel, AICS gen 1 chassis and all the parts I pretty much need to build the 6.5 CM, including the reamer. I just need a shop...

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

That the 7WSM did well is not surprising

That is certainly a cartridge I need to consider for my 2nd short action. I think my Magnum bolt could work for that. It is for a short action (.550~, PTG does them slightly oversize). I can use that one for 300 WSM if I want.

 

[SKWERLZ]

That is certainly a cartridge I need to consider for my 2nd short action. I think my Magnum bolt could work for that. It is for a short action (.550~, PTG does them slightly oversize). I can use that one for 300 WSM if I want.

Bad part about 7WSM is brass, 7mm/300WSM is more popular because of more brass availability and is plenty capable.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Bad part about 7WSM is brass, 7mm/300WSM is more popular because of more brass availability and is plenty capable.

Damn, there's always some downside...to every cartridge...Do you use Norma brass? I see there's no Lapua or Peterson brass for it...but Shaun mentioned the 33XC, Peterson sells brass for that, but an entirely different cartridge which won't fit in a short action.

I don't think the 300 WSM is SAAMI spec'd, is it?

 

[ShaunBrady]

When you say CIP AICS mag, are you talking about 6.5 PRC length? 2.955 COAL ? I know those will fit in the AICS, but wasn't sure what you refer to with CIP, typically most smiths seem to wait for SAAMI.

CIP is the colloquial name for the original 3.850" outside length 338 Lapua AICS magazine. It'll take rounds with a nominal COAL of 3.75".

 

[ShaunBrady]

One of my practice guns is a 7/300wsm. I use 270wsm brass because necking up a case from .277 to .284 isn't much of a wildcat. Soon after the 180 ELDm was introduced, Midway was selling blems that looked like them for 14 cents each. The bearing surface was 0.100" longer and the BC trued about 7% lower so I think they were from a test batch before they settled on a final design. I bought 2400 of them. At 10 reload pressures, velocity was about 3050 fps from a 32" barrel. Shooting 10 shot strings, barrel life was about 1000 rounds. Par on a 2200 yard 32"x36" is ~4 hits for 10 shots under moderate conditions. I retire barrels when the vertical dispersion opens up at a mile or more. They'll shoot decent 100 yard targets for awhile longer.

8 cops up came up for a range day. I lined them up and zeroed the gun on the 2200 yard target. They were given 5 shots each. The last guy was the only one that didn't get any hits. The barrel was so hot by then it'd remove skin and a very heavy mirage set in. Two had first round hits and had realized it wasn't going to get any better, so they dropped the mic and handed off the gun. One guy had 3 hits and the rest had 2. I had 2 from the cold bore. The wind hold was 1.5-2 mils. The mirage was the limitation on spotting that day, the berm was very responsive.

The donor gun was originally a 300wsm, so yes, 300wsm is a SAAMI cartridge.

I started with a straight 7wsm, but brass was too hard to find at the time. What's readily available and reasonably priced changes over time. Both loading components and guns.