When you fill out the application to buy a firearm, that the store uses to call in the background check, how far back do these records exist? Does FBI/ATF have records of purchases in the `70's and 80`s? Thanks for your input.
Does anyone know
- Thread starter Jr solocam
- Start date
The ffl has to keep them until they go out of business. They then send them to the atf records division.
They stay at the store. FFLs are only required to send in 20 years of forms when they go out of business, I have records in my basement from the previous owner back to 1980. We are working on "disposing" of those. The ATF demanded them when he retired and he told them to pound sand. He sent what was required.
There should be "fire" sale every few years
3 guys on a beach in Florida. First guy says he had a business in NY but it burned down. Second guy says he had a business in NJ and it burned down. Third guy says he had a business in IL that got flooded. He leaves. 1 looks at 2 and asks "how do you start a flood?"
True story. My license expired in 07/18. In accordance with ATF requirements I boxed up the records I had for the last 27 years and called the local ATF office in Houston. According to ATF guidelines, I had the option of either hand delivering the records to an ATF field office or shipping them to their records center in WV. After leaving phone messages for a couple of days without the courtesy of a return call, I finally managed to get a live person on the phone. I told the agent I wanted to make certain someone would be at the office when I handed over the records. She told me all they would do is ship the records to WV so why don't I just mail them. I explained I wanted to ensure the ATF received them and that there would be a record of the receipt. She then said they didn't have any money left in their budget for records shipping. Really? If this wasn't so pathetic it would be laughable.
Ok. What I am about to describe happened to me personally and I am not a dealer. About 30 years ago, a pistol was stolen from me - a nice one. I bought it from a dealer. For one reason and another, right or wrong, I did not report it as stolen. About 6 years ago, I got a phone call from LEO in an adjacent state asking me if I ever had such and such pistol stolen from me. I had forgotten the theft, but after I reached back in my brain archives, I remembered, stated yes, and described it. He said he had the pistol in his possession and it was confiscated during a traffic stop. I said "OK, what does that mean I have to do?". He replied come fill out some paperwork and take it home. The paperwork as less than I originally filled out to buy it and I left very happy.
I asked the LEO - does this happen often and he said yes. I asked what the record was for finding and returning a gun time wise and he replied over 50 years and it was a shotgun stolen in his state and confiscated in Texas.
So - someone, not the gun store, had my purchase info in a database that was apparently national and accessible to LEO. So, I guess it's a mystery of who had those records so long right? Once again, I do not believe anything the government or a government agency tells me. Downright spooky it is.
I asked the LEO - does this happen often and he said yes. I asked what the record was for finding and returning a gun time wise and he replied over 50 years and it was a shotgun stolen in his state and confiscated in Texas.
So - someone, not the gun store, had my purchase info in a database that was apparently national and accessible to LEO. So, I guess it's a mystery of who had those records so long right? Once again, I do not believe anything the government or a government agency tells me. Downright spooky it is.
3Ackleys
Gold $$ Contributor
My FFL shreds them after 20 years. BATF told him 20 years.
www.atf.gov
How long are licensees required to maintain ATF Forms 4473? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Licensees shall retain each Form 4473 until business or licensed activity is discontinued, either on paper, or in an electronic alternate method approved by the Director, at the business premises readily accessible for inspection under this part. Paper forms over 20 years of age may be stored at...
FFLs keep their bound book with aquisition and disoosition info. The atf got a trace request for your gun. They went to the mfg, then distributor, and then your store following the info in the bound books.
All the ATF can trace is the serial number. They call the manufacturer who then tells the atf which distributor or gun shop the item was sent to. The atf then calls the dealer with the serial number. As a dealer I have 24 hours to respond with who I transferred the item to and their address. They have no database that they can search telling them who owns what. That will all change if they get universal background checks to go through.
I must be missing something. I hadn't lived in the location where I bought the gun for around 30 years. I must say, I don't remember where I bought the pistol, so I don't even know if that shop is still in business. I was called on my work phone by the LEO and that phone is the name of the company I work for. That was not long after 2008 disrupted my life, so I was using my parents address as mine.
So, if the shop I bought it from is closed, then where was my paperwork kept? Digitally I am sure. But, it was kept - well kept. See below.
If the shop I bought it from is still open, and they did have my info, received a request from the ATF and gave them my 30 year old information and address: how were they able to reach me at a number not registered in my name?
So, I understand what you guys are saying, but my experience indicates there might just be a huge database capable of cross referencing a ton of information. Or maybe the detective just ran my name through the Yellow Pages?
So, if the shop I bought it from is closed, then where was my paperwork kept? Digitally I am sure. But, it was kept - well kept. See below.
If the shop I bought it from is still open, and they did have my info, received a request from the ATF and gave them my 30 year old information and address: how were they able to reach me at a number not registered in my name?
So, I understand what you guys are saying, but my experience indicates there might just be a huge database capable of cross referencing a ton of information. Or maybe the detective just ran my name through the Yellow Pages?
Scary isn’t it
Thud
Gold $$ Contributor
They know "They Know All About You"
So very true unfortunately
Controlling us, might be the correct term!
I might change that to.... "our government is hard at work, watching us."
Steve Nicholas
Retired Grunt
F Open Shooter
It is so lucrative even the Post Office got in on the act.
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