6GT powder ladder. Input desired (seating ladder added 9/15 & 9/21)

[jxb]

Oh I don't know my backside from anything on this stuff, but I know how to read and I listen to you all. It also helps that I have 3-4 books on reading the wind, most of which I still need to read but I'll get there. I don't own a flag (yet) and no idea if the range would even let me put them up.

I have for years used flagging tape as an indicator and as a hunter and varminter vegetation. That said until being here I never really understood how much wind can effect even at 100yrds. Kinda mind blowing but seeing is believing.

You obviously have a good understanding, yes I use flags to help interpret results. A good example here for those in question, if not for flags I might have given up on a load thinking I had broken out but with flags i note the R-L quartering wind, I stayed with it and came out the other side still in the node at 31.6
Jim

hmmm I can't read your notes. Tell me if I'm reading those groups correctly.
1. wind in your face or none
2. wind from 4/5
3. wind from 7/8
4. wind from back
5. wind from left but not idea why they are apart so much. Unless it switched from 8 to 11 between them.

update, ok I forgot to account for your increase in charge. I see what you mean now. left to right 31.4,5,6 are the node but 31.4,5 are the ones impacted by quarter wind. Meaning those three appear same height in relation to POA, but 31.3 is lower
right?

 

[JFrank]

Those are all one node, just the middle shots are getting pushed left and strung out by the right hand wind.

 

[jxb]

Those are all one node, just the middle shots are getting pushed left and strung out by the right hand wind.

ok, thanks for clarifying. I kinda wondered since they were so close to the same position and it is a lower charge. Lots to learn.

I am trying to understand why 31.4 and 31.5 are so different if the wind was from the right. Where you holding into the wind on 31.5?

 

[JFrank]

No, I held center + each shot.
Twitchy wind from the right blows rounds up and left while wind from the left blows rounds down and right.( Mix in a switchy headwind and rounds get pushed down a tad bit.)
Thx lone hunter,

 

[Lone Hunter]

ok, thanks for clarifying. I kinda wondered since they were so close to the same position and it is a lower charge. Lots to learn.

I am trying to understand why 31.4 and 31.5 are so different if the wind was from the right. Where you holding into the wind on 31.5?

Can speak for Jim but I believe this is what he is trying to tell you with wind directiion…

 

[jxb]

No, I held center + each shot.
Twitchy wind from the right blows rounds up and left while wind from the left blows rounds down and right.
Here’s the full ladder shot at 500 yards during a dead calm morning.

I see how both tie together. Same charges and that node shows pretty clearly at 500.
If I read that correctly, zero deg and calm, love it.

"wind from the left blows rounds down and right.( Mix in a switchy headwind and rounds get pushed down a tad bit.) "

ok I failed to read the headwind part, anyhow yeah I need to spend some time with flags and switchy wind so I can see the effect in real time on target. Should sink in better but the diagram helps, same as I've seen in the books.

 

[jxb]

Thanks everyone for your time, it's appreciated. -- Jeff

 

[JFrank]

While testing you’ll get to the point where you see a group and know what direction the wind hit it and understand and not throw out a good load.
The trick during a record rounds is to read the conditions and make corrections before you get blown out.

Good luck with that part..

 

[jxb]

While testing you’ll get to the point where you see a group and know what direction the wind hit it and understand and not throw out a good load.
The trick during a record rounds is to read the conditions and make corrections before you get blown out.

Good luck with that part..

Thanks for that Jim, 7,8, 9 landing low-right, that's just wild. I would have never guessed that. Same for 1,2,3 but somehow those don't seem quite as weird.

 

[JFrank]

Looking at your last three groups I would suggest a light 4:00 - 5:00 wind. When you shoot those again they may look a bit different.

 

[Fast14riot]

Have you done a seating depth test before this? Eliminating that noise from the data helps interpret powder tests.

If pressed, I would look at groups 8-9. They look the most like each other and printed at similar elevation and personally I like small groups that are taller than wider as I shoot in wind and don't want the natural dispersion of my load to make a missed wind velocity call worse. Waterline isn't everything when the 9 ring is only 2.5" away from the X-ring.

 

[jxb]

Looking at your last three groups I would suggest a light 4:00 - 5:00 wind. When you shoot those again they may look a bit different.

Could be, but I don't recall noticing any but looking at wind for that location and date/times, per timeanddate for 6/29 at that location it was 3N until noon and 9W noon-6pm.
Ladder test was 11:40am-12:30pm. Targets are due west from the benches. That said, this range is in an old gravel pit so it can be blowing hard top-side at the parking lot and just a switchy light breeze on the range. I don't recall the targets moving at all, same for the brush and they generally do if there's much of a breeze.

If you saw what I was shooting from and all the people banging on the benches which are all one long wood bench you might wonder how I got what I did. I've got kinda used to them, time shots, learn not to flinch when the 300win mag next to me goes off, etc... I'm looking forward to the other range that has 100-300 and concrete benches with good separation.

Have you done a seating depth test before this? Eliminating that noise from the data helps interpret powder tests.

If pressed, I would look at groups 8-9. They look the most like each other and printed at similar elevation and personally I like small groups that are taller than wider as I shoot in wind and don't want the natural dispersion of my load to make a missed wind velocity call worse. Waterline isn't everything when the 9 ring is only 2.5" away from the X-ring.

Planned to do the seating ladder after powder. Oh and likely at 200, maybe 300.

 

[jxb]

I finally made it up to the range for another powder ladder test. A few changes this time around.

front rest and rear bag, different scope so POI is different than the orig post but no elev/wind changes this target.
These are 3shot, .2gr steps (orig post was .3), aim was center for all.
There was no wind at all, the entire time dust rose slowly straight up. 68-72deg hum 40%, press 29.80, elev 100ft
no clickers but appears last four groups maybe very slight primer flattening, the last shot of 34.2 had cratering so I'm thinking that's right at max. There was cooling breaks after sighters and every 3rd set to keep temp consistent.

Any input is welcome. I'm thinking low end 32.2-32.6 or hotter 33.0-33.4 (similar to 7,8,9 first test) << this?
Thinking of moving to seating ladder at 33.0-33.4 and see what it does. good/bad idea? all wet?

 

[jxb]

After summer and some unforeseen stuff that kept me away from the range, finally made it out for the seating ladder. 3 rounds per group. I have to say I continue to be super happy with how this shoots, now to settle on a seating depth. Hoping to get some feedback on what I'm not seeing in these.

1-10 starts 0.003 off touch moving out to 0.030 in .003incr. There was no wind and shot at 100yrds. All
same powder load and foulers were shot before these. I shot these 1-5, then waited for barrel to be just warm, then 6-10.

 

[JFrank]

They seem to be trying to repeat about every .009 but honestly I would start working inside the lands from touch .003 .006 .009 jam look for a .003 .004 window that doesn’t spit rounds then load to the inside of that.
.012 jump isn’t bad but each side 9 & 15 are moving so it’s a small window. Sometimes that’s all you get though.

 

[jxb]

@JFrank thanks Jim for your input, it's appreciated. -- Jeff

I'll give touch and in towards jam a try so I can see the results and also out from .030 a bit as when I'm running this from the mag I would rather not risk dumping powder so wanting something off for that and thinking testing more around .012 as that's where I was during all my powder testing. Might do that after doing the additional tests further in and out.

I'm now at 123 count on this barrel. Looks like it sped up about 11fps since last time although humidity today was about 15% higher, otherwise same same for temp, pressure. I recall folks saying humidity affects but I can't remember which way or how much. Regardless it's currently a pretty small increase.

 

[JFrank]

If your using a bushing die can always add enough bullet hold to allow jamming slightly.

 

[Evlshnngns]

For what I do .030 off would be a retest. Looks like a nice setup.

 

[jxb]

@JFrank I do have bushings but hadn't used them yet. I'll keep that in mind. So far this is virgin Alpha brass all I've done is make sure primer pockets are consistent, chamfer/debur, and run a mandrel through em. So they aren't even fire formed yet and hoping they will only get better over time.

 

[jxb]

a seating retest where I did .003 in, and .030 out, skipped a retest of .012
I'm pretty sure .030 was me on that one, .039 pretty sure it didn't like it and spit that one out, no idea which hole third shot went into.

There was a little air movement and switchy, but maybe 1-3mph when it was noticed. Mostly the range had preseason hunters that were not properly schooled on either safety or range rules so while I wasn't ducking lead it was easily the worse range day I've experienced in the people sense. But hey only once did someone flag the entire line and only once did someone cross under the chain and out while hot! The other stuff was nothing in comparison. My point being, I'm claiming some of these might be me being distracted... I'm really liking how my powder load is holding up regardless of cold/fouling or not. In general regardless of seating seems really consistent but this is still just 100yrd. Likely see how it performs on the 300yrd range next.

Anyhow any comments, critique, suggestions welcome.