Digging Deeper into COVID-19

[INTJ]

The initial response to covid was understandable given the Chinese coverup, WHO incompetence, and initial modeling. However, as the data has come in and we have learned about COVID-19 we needed to change our response, but we didn't. The economic damage we have done will likely cause far more health issues and death than COVID-19.

The reasons why we didn't change include: experts not wanting to admit their obvious error, progressives desire for more control, democrats hope to gain election advantage, politician CYA, and people actually believing the hype of an agenda driven media.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Well, I'm sitting up here in NY while Cuomo mouths off about needing billions or we can stay in lock down forever. He trots out in front of a warehouse full of supplies to show how we need equipment and money fast. Taking equipment from upstate to hoard down state and putting Covid-19 patients in nursing homes with gen pop. All he cares about is padding the numbers to hopefully pay off the billions in the red on the federal dime.

I don't care if the death rate was .003 or 3, I don't feel trading our freedoms are worth it. When they push for the ID chip to track those who have been vaccinated, sign me up for the malitia.

Ray

 

[Stumpy1]

Amazing to me how many medical experts we have on this Gun forum . Leaves me shaking my head...

Well, it just points out that shooters come from all walks of life!

We do indeed have Doctors, Lawyers, Research Scientists, Plumbers, Electricians, Welders, you name it!
AND -we are lucky to be able to draw on all that expertise in a civil manner (most of the time).

Frank

 

[jds holler]

Well, it just points out that shooters come from all walks of life!

We do indeed have Doctors, Lawyers, Research Scientists, Plumbers, Electricians, Welders, you name it!
AND -we are lucky to be able to draw on all that expertise in a civil manner (most of the time).

Frank

And don't forget us truck drivers. We often have incredibly innovative ideas to solve difficult problems. Or at least we think we do. jd

 

[338 Mollett]

And the Fence guy's we set em deeper and stretch em tighter .

 

[6MMsteve]

I think in 2014 a law was passed to spew propaganda it is now legal in this country to spew propaganda...but I'm not a lawyer

 

[bluealtered]

One of the first thought's that pops into my mind when these things happen is who will profit from this? Humans may or may not be smart by themselves but they are very prone to panic and bad choices when in groups. Add to that, that about half of America now likes to led around by the nose as far as being able to think for themselves anymore and a lot of them have firearms and seem to love the chance to show them off. Which is stupid.

As for who thought they would profit from this problem, ... well we just flew a couple of B52's over the China sea the other day and they are now stationed in close range if needed. So please, ... keep your seats in the upright position and please remain seated until the ride is over.

 

[DickE]

who wants to be in the .4% bracket?

 

[orkan]

In an age of civilization where information can travel across the globe in a second... we still can't seem to prevent things like this. Is covid a problem? Is it not? Some people say it's a huge problem. Other people say its nothing more than a common cold.

Human beings are despicable and will readily sacrifice their neighbor for their own ends. It is because of this that the truth seems to always be shrouded in darkness. The more important the truth, the less likely we'll ever know it. People once believed it was simply caused by the logistics of how long it took information to travel. Clearly, that was not the issue.

Most people stand for nothing. There is no line they won't cross. They don't have a conscience, so when it comes time to choose between self enrichment and hazarding someone else... its effortless for them.

On every forum I frequent, people have been speaking as an authority on this virus, since it all began. Both sides, speaking with such conviction and certainty. I've been searching for the truth to try and make appropriate decisions for my family, and it is essentially impossible. I lack the medical knowledge to do the work for myself, and the information available to me is untrustworthy. So because the truth is unable to be known, I'm left to chart the safest course. The only responsible thing to do is stay away from people. Maybe the truth will be known someday... but it's painfully obvious that it is being manipulated today. People that haven't a clue, passing themselves off as an authority. As if they have some real cause for certainty that isn't available to the rest of us. Fact is, they don't know any better than the rest of us. They just lack the self discipline to keep their mouths shut if they don't have the experience necessary to discover the real truth. Those of you that are doctors, that specialize in viruses... I'm not speaking about you. Fact is, you're the only ones that should be speaking.

Instead, it's just like any time a new product is released. A bunch of groundless opinions and conjecture being spoken of as certainty by people with zero experience with the thing at hand. So smart, they don't even need to have touched it once to know everything about it.

Perhaps if people spent a little more time gaining actual experience before speaking, instead of talking about what they think they know... we might be able to have a shot at knowing truth when it really matters. With people behaving as they are, we might as well be in the dark ages rather than the most connected and technologically advanced society ever.

So is covid a big deal? Is it not? I have absolutely no clue... and I won't be able to either. Thanks to the noise being spewed by everyone with zero first-hand experience... it will remain impossible for me to know what is actually going on. Maybe we need a new thread talking about covid... and in order to do anything other than ask questions, you need to show your PhD in Virology. Frankly, I'd love to hear what a gun-toting viral doctor has to say about all this.

 

[SPQR70AD]

in 1957 the flu killed in the US 116K when the population was 172 million. killed 1.1 million worldwide. no shutdowns anywhere
in 1968 it was almost a duplicate of the dead in the US 100K and world one million. population in the US was 200 million. no shutdowns
think of 60K deaths in US with 330 million and way more old people now then in 1957. total lockdown in certain states economy destroyed. It aint about a virus

 

[INTJ]

In an age of civilization where information can travel across the globe in a second... we still can't seem to prevent things like this. Is covid a problem? Is it not? Some people say it's a huge problem. Other people say its nothing more than a common cold.

Human beings are despicable and will readily sacrifice their neighbor for their own ends. It is because of this that the truth seems to always be shrouded in darkness. The more important the truth, the less likely we'll ever know it. People once believed it was simply caused by the logistics of how long it took information to travel. Clearly, that was not the issue.

Most people stand for nothing. There is no line they won't cross. They don't have a conscience, so when it comes time to choose between self enrichment and hazarding someone else... its effortless for them.

On every forum I frequent, people have been speaking as an authority on this virus, since it all began. Both sides, speaking with such conviction and certainty. I've been searching for the truth to try and make appropriate decisions for my family, and it is essentially impossible. I lack the medical knowledge to do the work for myself, and the information available to me is untrustworthy. So because the truth is unable to be known, I'm left to chart the safest course. The only responsible thing to do is stay away from people. Maybe the truth will be known someday... but it's painfully obvious that it is being manipulated today. People that haven't a clue, passing themselves off as an authority. As if they have some real cause for certainty that isn't available to the rest of us. Fact is, they don't know any better than the rest of us. They just lack the self discipline to keep their mouths shut if they don't have the experience necessary to discover the real truth. Those of you that are doctors, that specialize in viruses... I'm not speaking about you. Fact is, you're the only ones that should be speaking.

Instead, it's just like any time a new product is released. A bunch of groundless opinions and conjecture being spoken of as certainty by people with zero experience with the thing at hand. So smart, they don't even need to have touched it once to know everything about it.

Perhaps if people spent a little more time gaining actual experience before speaking, instead of talking about what they think they know... we might be able to have a shot at knowing truth when it really matters. With people behaving as they are, we might as well be in the dark ages rather than the most connected and technologically advanced society ever.

So is covid a big deal? Is it not? I have absolutely no clue... and I won't be able to either. Thanks to the noise being spewed by everyone with zero first-hand experience... it will remain impossible for me to know what is actually going on. Maybe we need a new thread talking about covid... and in order to do anything other than ask questions, you need to show your PhD in Virology. Frankly, I'd love to hear what a gun-toting viral doctor has to say about all this.

I simply could not disagree with you more that only doctors get to talk about COVID. It was the "expert" doctors' advice that caused our poor initial response. Their advice has now also killed the economy. Experts are usually laser-focused on their area of expertise and do not consider the larger picture.

I am not blaming the docs for this crisis. As I have said many times the initial confusion and uncertainty based on China's lies, WHO corruption/incompetence, and massively incorrect modeling made our initial response understandable. However as the data has come in our response needed to change but it didn't.

The problem has been groupthink among the experts and politicians, and the legacy media and progressives gleefully jumped on the bandwagon. The best way to break groupthink, have critical thinking reappear, and take proper action; is by questioning the experts and making them logically justify their recommendations and actions.

Remember, the most helpful early action--the China travel ban--was implemented by a non-expert against the advice of the experts.

 

[orkan]

The largest picture I can think of is, I have several loved ones with compromised immune systems. I'd like to spend more time with them, rather than have their lives cut short. I'd rather be in the poor house, without a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out... than choose money over time with them.

 

[mike a]

I wish all you people would quit troubling me with all these numbers and facts. I'll believe the conspiracy theory that best supports ME and my wallet. That is where you'll find the truth. Mike

 

[INTJ]

The largest picture I can think of is, I have several loved ones with compromised immune systems. I'd like to spend more time with them, rather than have their lives cut short. I'd rather be in the poor house, without a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out... than choose money over time with them.

That is a false dichotomy. The choice is not and has never been preserving life or having money.

It has been well understood for a very long time as to how we protect the vulnerable. That means keeping THEM in quarantine and keeping them away with virus carriers whether it's COVID-19, Influenza A, or Ebola. It means social distancing from them and keeping their environment disinfected. It means monitoring them and taking early action when they start to get sick.

It also means NOT sending patients affected with COVID-19 back to their nursing home. That decision was most surely made by relying on the expert's projections that there was going to be an overwhelming amount of hospitalizations, so we needed to keep as much bed space open as we could. A data driven approach would have been to keep these elderly people in the hospital until they were no longer contagious, and moved them out only if bed space was needed. That would have saved what, 25% of the people that does who were living in nursing homes?

What protecting the vulnerable doesn't mean is telling most of the population to stay home and lose their jobs. It doesn't mean keeping people who need treatment for serious conditions out of the hospital and then furloughing hospital workers.

Without a strong economy we do not have the resources to take care of the sick and vulnerable. The increase in poverty we will create will also cause death, possibly at a greater level than we are seeing with COVID-19. I sincerely hope not, but we didn't need to consider this an "either or" scenario.

Again, I do not blame the actions taking in the initial confusion of all this, but I am critical of doubling down on universal quarantines when the data that has come in shows a much better path that doesn't take away freedom and kill the economy.

 

[SPQR70AD]

One of the first thought's that pops into my mind when these things happen is who will profit from this? Humans may or may not be smart by themselves but they are very prone to panic and bad choices when in groups. Add to that, that about half of America now likes to led around by the nose as far as being able to think for themselves anymore and a lot of them have firearms and seem to love the chance to show them off. Which is stupid.

As for who thought they would profit from this problem, ... well we just flew a couple of B52's over the China sea the other day and they are now stationed in close range if needed. So please, ... keep your seats in the upright position and please remain seated until the ride is over.

rice farmers in north Vietnam shot down 15 B-52's almost 50 years ago. think of how advanced weaponry is today and China is no slouch in that dept

 

[orkan]

That is a false dichotomy. The choice is not and has never been preserving life or having money.

It has been well understood for a very long time as to how we protect the vulnerable. That means keeping THEM in quarantine and keeping them away with virus carriers whether it's COVID-19, Influenza A, or Ebola. It means social distancing from them and keeping their environment disinfected. It means monitoring them and taking early action when they start to get sick.

It also means NOT sending patients affected with COVID-19 back to their nursing home. That decision was most surely made by relying on the expert's projections that there was going to be an overwhelming amount of hospitalizations, so we needed to keep as much bed space open as we could. A data driven approach would have been to keep these elderly people in the hospital until they were no longer contagious, and moved them out only if bed space was needed. That would have saved what, 25% of the people that does who were living in nursing homes?

What protecting the vulnerable doesn't mean is telling most of the population to stay home and lose their jobs. It doesn't mean keeping people who need treatment for serious conditions out of the hospital and then furloughing hospital workers.

Without a strong economy we do not have the resources to take care of the sick and vulnerable. The increase in poverty we will create will also cause death, possibly at a greater level than we are seeing with COVID-19. I sincerely hope not, but we didn't need to consider this an "either or" scenario.

Again, I do not blame the actions taking in the initial confusion of all this, but I am critical of doubling down on universal quarantines when the data that has come in shows a much better path that doesn't take away freedom and kill the economy.

You are attributing ideals and arguments to me, that I'm not making.

 

[INTJ]

.

You are attributing ideals and arguments to me, that I'm not making.

Then what arguments and ideals do you have? In your previous post, your statement was a very much in line with the virtue signalling of those who create the false dichotomy of saving lives or opening the economy.

I enjoy a vigorous discussion but I don't want to misrepresent or exaggerate someone's position.

 

[338 dude]

The initial response to covid was understandable given the Chinese coverup, WHO incompetence, and initial modeling. However, as the data has come in and we have learned about COVID-19 we needed to change our response, but we didn't. The economic damage we have done will likely cause far more health issues and death than COVID-19.

The reasons why we didn't change include: experts not wanting to admit their obvious error, progressives desire for more control, democrats hope to gain election advantage, politician CYA, and people actually believing the hype of an agenda driven media.

Watch this it will blow your mind!!!!

 

[orkan]

.


Then what arguments and ideals do you have?

If you had an interest, and wanted to know... you'd have asked first. You didn't. I'm not offended by it, but I won't be trying to defend things you think, which I didn't say, either. My views on this subject truly do not matter to anyone outside my family. If you'd like to label me as "virtue signalling" without knowing my position, there's nothing I can do about that. I'm not about to engage in civil discussion when someone sets the tone as you did. I'm certainly not going to try to defend your ideas of who I am or what I believe, when they contradict my actual beliefs.

My statements were clear for anyone that didn't want to be argumentative. Those that do want to argue with me about this subject, can just have their victory in advance. I've no interest in arguing with people I don't know, about something I don't know anything about. I won't be deciding what I will do, based on what anyone else thinks or does. I certainly don't care what anyone else does, and I won't be stopping anyone from doing anything unless they show up at my door.

 

[rammac]

If you don't want to argue a point and you feel that your opinion only affects your family then why bother us with your post?