Custom actions.... are they worth the $$$$?

[JRS]

Again, your reading comprehension needs a little work.... I did not say that. He is saying that FOR HALF THE PRICE after trueing there is no difference. The inference being (for the sake of the thread being about custom actions) is that a modern factory Remington 700, after basic trueing will shoot, with a custom action that costs closer to $1100 than the $400 + $100 to true.

A proper truing job is going to cost you considerably more than $100.00

 

[geo.ulrich]

If you square the face of the bolt, the face of the action, action threads, square the lugs, what else is there? At least for a basic squaring.

I never made any statements about Stillers being true (and neither did my smith), other than the fact that they cost $1100, and the average user would assume for that premium price, they WOULD be true.

Hey, if you guys want to besmirch my friend because you feel the need to correct me and him that clearly explained what he meant, go ahead... The post was rude and not necessary.
Again I am not picking on you or you gunsmith , you put the statement out here. Either you or your gunsmith should not ASSUME they are true. there are a lot of people who seem to think more $$$$ means they are better , not exactly true. they are better. I think 100$ is to the really low side but if they are just facing square its o.k. .... first you would need to straighten receiver bore then face receiver square and lug abutments and single point rethread receiver , on to bolt check crooked threads and firing pin hole for center and see if firing pin assem is rubbing and free and if bolt body is straight . then firing pin see how crooked it is. I will not go into fixes for the above its to time consuming and would raise more questions . I can inspect an action in about an hour so how much work is being done for 100$......if I recall you said "my gunsmith said that for 1/2 price they end up being equally straight considering a Stiller SHOULD NOT need trueing......

 

[JRS]

I deleted all of my posts, because I really don't care and this, and this custom action discussion always seems to circle the toilet.... but I will say this, if I bought a "custom action" for $1000 to $2000 (the typical range) and was immediately told it would need "truing" I would be PISSED... PISSSSEDDDDD.

I would be very interested to know how BAT, Borden, Kelbly, Stiller, etc would feel about it.

The aftermarket action makers work to +/- dimensions, and are held to much tighter tolerances than factory actions. They do the best as is humanly possible for a reasonable price. If you want absolute perfection, it is achievable for a substantial cost.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The aftermarket action makers work to +/- dimensions, and are held to much tighter tolerances than factory actions. They do the best as is humanly possible for a reasonable price. If you want absolute perfection, it is achievable for a substantial cost.

This very true. I consider the good custom actions on the market today a VALUE. They are cheap for whats involved!

 

[expiper]

This very true. I consider the good custom actions on the market today a VALUE. They are cheap for whats involved!

Alex...you are correct ,,,,most of the folks that are asking this question have never shot or even cycled a rifle with a good custom action,,,,one of the features that seems to be over looked is with most "custom" actions you can configure the loading and ejection ports to suit your needs or likes,,,if you are laying on the ground and have time to spit your tobacco juice as the flies buzzing around between shots it is not a factor ,,,but if you are involved in a "B"enchrest comp (short or long range) you need to be able to quickly and effortlsly cycle (dump) your rounds before the rooster crows or the wind changes,,,,Roger

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I deleted all of my posts, because I really don't care and this, and this custom action discussion always seems to circle the toilet.... but I will say this, if I bought a "custom action" for $1000 to $2000 (the typical range) and was immediately told it would need "truing" I would be PISSED... PISSSSEDDDDD.

I would be very interested to know how BAT, Borden, Kelbly, Stiller, etc would feel about it.

- I think it would be nice if you gave it a "Break" and "Listened" to some of the experienced guys who are posting. - There's something to be learned in what they say. - and I'm NOT trying to be rude or offensive.

- Ron -

 

[geo.ulrich]

Alex, I agree somewhat , when you have to pay additional $$$$ to check or fix this is a problem. there is a whole industry built on fixing custom actions, within the last year I checked lets say the most popular b.r. action receiver face out .006 lugs out .003 and it overcocked .090 yes 90 thous. I wonder what inspection is going on with this making it out the door.. I already can hear send it back who pays for the check then mfg'r sure isn't. this isn't a one time occurrence I have three others that I just threw in the corner bolt threads so bad when trigger was released I had to push cocking piece with my finger to make it move. another firing pin hole is so bad if you look in from rear of bolt the hole looks like a football .02+ tir...either I am really hitting a badluck streak or companies are less than thorough on checking.....

 

[geo.ulrich]

The aftermarket action makers work to +/- dimensions, and are held to much tighter tolerances than factory actions. They do the best as is humanly possible for a reasonable price. If you want absolute perfection, it is achievable for a substantial cost.

to add to this they use fixtures for machining and their tolerances start stacking and in the end...well its not so good..

 

[eddief]

Alex, I agree somewhat , when you have to pay additional $$$$ to check or fix this is a problem. there is a whole industry built on fixing custom actions, within the last year I checked lets say the most popular b.r. action receiver face out .006 lugs out .003 and it overcocked .090 yes 90 thous. I wonder what inspection is going on with this making it out the door.. I already can hear send it back who pays for the check then mfg'r sure isn't. this isn't a one time occurrence I have three others that I just threw in the corner bolt threads so bad when trigger was released I had to push cocking piece with my finger to make it move. another firing pin hole is so bad if you look in from rear of bolt the hole looks like a football .02+ tir...either I am really hitting a badluck streak or companies are less than thorough on checking.....

Wow, that's worse than most 700's.

 

[grovey]

You cant quite get a rem ignition as good as you can with a custom. Pin guidance and shroud fit are more difficult to achieve perfection because you have to deal with something thats not true in the beginning. Its hard to get a good tight shroud fit and a bind free pin fall when the threads in the bolt arent straight and the rear of the bolt bore is warped. Nothings impossible and I do have a work around for the thread issue, but you will have more $$ tied up than its worth.

Is there a better aftermarket bolt made for a 700 that addresses these issues?

 

[Evlshnngns]

Is there a better aftermarket bolt made for a 700 that addresses these issues?

I was going to ask the same thing. Would the PTG .062 "br" bolt show gains on the target? The ptg br firing pin is guided i believe.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Yes. You can guide a rem700 pin as well, but its tough to fix crooked threads in a bolt, so a tight fitting shroud causes as many problems as it fixes. So long as its how it should be the PTG would be good.

 

[geo.ulrich]

always can recut threads in bolt and make a new shroud as was done in the past and all for 100$. Also concerning ptg bolts well they were making them for some custom action makers which didn't seem to fare to well.....

 

[geo.ulrich]

Wow, that's worse than most 700's.

Not so much remingtons are out worse sometimes a lot worse I have not messed with any in awhile but I remember it taking .015-.025 to clean up receiver threads..

 

[bichettereds]

Just curious... what would be a good estimate on how many man hours goes into producing a Kelbly or Bat action?

 

[grovey]

Alex, I agree somewhat , when you have to pay additional $$$$ to check or fix this is a problem. there is a whole industry built on fixing custom actions, within the last year I checked lets say the most popular b.r. action receiver face out .006 lugs out .003 and it overcocked .090 yes 90 thous. I wonder what inspection is going on with this making it out the door.. I already can hear send it back who pays for the check then mfg'r sure isn't. this isn't a one time occurrence I have three others that I just threw in the corner bolt threads so bad when trigger was released I had to push cocking piece with my finger to make it move. another firing pin hole is so bad if you look in from rear of bolt the hole looks like a football .02+ tir...either I am really hitting a badluck streak or companies are less than thorough on checking.....

If it's like most hands on small businesses a guy produces good work and makes a name for himself, and when the business grows he can't keep up. Before long he has hired a bunch of guys who are not as good at their craft as he was, and just don't care as much.
The guy who made a name for himself is now polishing a leather chair with his ass, promoting his product and is answering the phone.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

If it's like most hands on small businesses a guy produces good work and makes a name for himself, and when the business grows he can't keep up. Before long he has hired a bunch of guys who are not as good at their craft as he was, and just don't care as much.
The guy who made a name for himself is now polishing a leather chair with his ass, promoting his product and is answering the phone.

- I don't agree with this at all in the case of both Borden Actions and BAT Machine Company. Both of these business are well directed and are in fact run from the "Front Line" by the actual owners. - Jim Borden, Bruce Thom & Daryle Thom have built companies that produce very high quality actions and these men are committed to high quality. - I have NO vested interest in either company, but I own 9 BAT actions and 2 Borden actions and I have yet to find problems that were of any significance & wasn't rectifiable.
My .02 - Ron -

 

[JRS]

Actions are like anything else. As well made as the customs are, they can be improved. High dollar stocks are the same way. Your gunsmith is going to do some tweaking to make things work right/well. How much money are you willing to pay for perfect?

 

[geo.ulrich]

- I don't agree with this at all in the case of both Borden Actions and BAT Machine Company. Both of these business are well directed and are in fact run from the "Front Line" by the actual owners. - Jim Borden, Bruce Thom & Daryle Thom have built companies that produce very high quality actions and these men are committed to high quality. - I have NO vested interest in either company, but I own 9 BAT actions and 2 Borden actions and I have yet to find problems with any of them.
My .02 - Ron -

Glad they are working for you my question is have you had them checked an off the shelf remingchester goes boom doesn't make them cutting edge accuracy capable....

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Glad they are working for you my question is have you had them checked an off the shelf remingchester goes boom doesn't make them cutting edge accuracy capable....

Yes indeed they have been checked & very closely. And not everything was 100% perfect on every action. But they were checked & worked on by the likes of Gordy Gritters and Greg Tannel when the work-scopes ensued. - Also, I'm not saying that the factory actions can't be brought up to very high standards, I have several Savage Target actions that I had gone through and even had the bolts double-sleeved on along with the "truing work" - The cost to have this done equaled the cost of the new action, so in essence I ended up paying about double the cost of the "as delivered" action to bring it up to what I wanted in "standards". - I believe that todays high quality custom actions offer a lot, 100% perfect all the time, No. - That's why they should be checked as well and any corrective measures needed then carried out. IMO factory "remingchester" is not in the same "League" as a BAT or Borden action.

Regards, - Ron -