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Cost vs. Expected Quality

I had a customer recently tell me that he was aware of GM barrels but was concerned of the quality because the price was so much lower than other barrels. Not the first time I’ve heard this. Don’t get me wrong, I use any and all barrel manufacturers that are requested from the customer and honestly don’t think there is a bad barrel blank on the market today, unless one slips past the goalie, but due to increased machine standards that take out a lot of human error and guess work. It’s purely a simple matter of manufacturing economics. Let me explain…

I will use Green Mountain for this example, which is a button barrel, because I use a ton of them, have a long working relationship with GM, (in addition to Krieger, Bartlein, Brux, ect.) and the rifled hole in the middle of the blank is done very well each time. I also know (haven’t confirmed lately) that they the largest privately held barrel manufacturer in the US and supply a great deal of OEM barrels to firearms manufacturers in the US and internationally. They don’t advertise to the end user for the same reason BASF doesn’t, although BASF has a hand in almost anything manufactured today. They didn’t get to this point over the decades by producing crap.

They start by using steel bar stock that is produced to their spec, deep hole drill / ream that stock to size, and force a carbide button just like any button barrel manufacturer has done for the last 70 years. The barrel stock can now be called a rifled barrel blank. That blank is then stress relieved in a nitrogen oven, turned between centers so that the hole goes down the middle of the blank diameter, then stress relieved again. The barrel blank then goes through inspection before it makes it to the shipping dept. This process is performed thousands of times a month which brings the individual piece price down dramatically compared to a manufacturer a fraction of their size. I don’t know exactly how long one piece takes to produce due to batch processing, but I know when producing in such large lot sizes, it ain’t long. Obviously, there’s a great deal more here to be articulated, but there it is in a nutshell. They employ a significant number of American workers to produce this product, turn a good profit at their spot price, and have an unbelievable backlog.

End user pricing is based on cost to produce. We already discussed the origin of the product, now let’s move to the finish machine process that consists of many reputable small companies like mine and others across the country that service the industry. Speaking for myself and using a RimX pre-fit barrel for illustration purposes, we continue. Once the barrel blanks are in stock, they are loaded into a CNC lathe for contour and action thread spec. They are cut to desired length and again loaded into the CNC for muzzle threads if needed. All diameters are checked and threaded tenons are checked with a ring gage for a 3B fitment. At this point the barrel is visually taking shape. The barrel is then loaded into a manual tool room lathe for specific chambering, unless a large quantity is ordered of the same exact piece. The chamber is then polished and moved to another lathe for crowning. Once the barrel is more or less complete, it’s polished, marked, and packaged for shipment. The entire finish process from the time the barrel blank arrives takes about a half hour to complete barring any hicups along the way. Just for reference, this process took Remington about a minute and a half to completely produce a center fire barrel.

To sum things up, time is money. The only way to take less time is to streamline using automated tooling and evolved processes in order to produce without sacrificing quality. When I first started, this process took all morning for one piece. Things change, processes change, people learn from mistakes, ect, ect… All of this time cost is considered to offer pricing that will deliver a great product as well as turn an acceptable profit. No one works for free, nor should they ever be expected to. This is capitalism at it’s finest. I hope it stays around a little while longer.

Now, for an insider’s scoop….some in this industry happen to use Green Mountain barrels and call them by their own made up name or say “this is proprietary info”, never the less, it’s a good product and mainly comes down to the finisher. Other finishers must include multiple layers of profit in order to pay both the guy you are buying the barrel from as well as the guy who is actually doing the work in addition to anyone else in the chain of sale and distribution.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject…

JS
 

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Thank you for the insider view! Sorry the abuse you received with the thread looking for someone to test your barrels. I bought several barrels from Montana rifleman when they went from selling to the consumer to making barrels for manufacturers and clearing out the old stock. The man that I talked to was very honest and said they compare to Shilen match but not the select match. I have used 2 of the three and he was right them shoot good, but not as good as a Bartlein. They were exactly what was promised and I couldn't be happier with them. I have several GM barrels but have yet to chamber any of them.
 
I had a customer recently tell me that he was aware of GM barrels but was concerned of the quality because the price was so much lower than other barrels. Not the first time I’ve heard this. Don’t get me wrong, I use any an all barrel manufacturers that are requested from the customer and honestly don’t think there is a bad barrel blank on the market today, unless one slips past the goalie due to increased machine standards that take out a lot of human error and guess work, but It’s purely a simple matter of manufacturing economics. Let me explain…

I will use Green Mountain for this example, which is a button barrel, because I use a ton of them, have a long working relationship with GM, and the rifled hole in the middle of the blank is done very well each time. I also know (haven’t confirmed that lately) that they the largest privately held barrel manufacturer in the US and supply a great deal of OEM barrels to firearms manufacturers in the US and internationally. They don’t advertise to the end user for the same reason BASF doesn’t, although BASF has a hand in almost anything manufactured today. They didn’t get to this point over the decades by producing crap.

They start by using steel bar stock that is produced to their spec, deep hole drill and ream that stock, and force a carbide button just like any button barrel manufacturer has done for the last 70 years. The barrel stock can now be called a rifled barrel. That barrel is then stress relieved in a nitrogen, turned between centers so that the hole goes down the middle of the barrel diameter, then stress relieved again. The barrel blank then goes through inspection before it makes it to the shipping dept. This process is performed thousands of times a month which brings the individual piece price down dramatically compared to a manufacturer a fraction of their size. I don’t know exactly how long one piece takes to produce due to batch processing, but I know when producing in such large lot sizes, it ain’t long. Obviously, there’s a great deal more here to be articulated, but there it is in a nutshell. They employ a significant number of American workers to produce this product, turn a good profit at their spot price, and have an unbelievable backlog.

End user pricing is based on cost to produce. We already discussed the origin of the product, now let’s move to the finish machine process that consists of many reputable small companies like mine and others across the country that service the industry. Speaking for myself and using a RimX pre-fit barrel for illustration purposes, we continue. Once the barrel blanks are in stock, they are loaded into a CNC lathe for contour and action thread spec. They are cut to desired length and again loaded into the CNC for muzzle threads if needed. All diameters are checked and threaded tenons are checked with a ring gage for a 3B fitment. At this point the barrel is visually taking shape. The barrel is then loaded into a manual tool room lathe for specific chambering, unless a large quantity is ordered of the same exact piece. The chamber is then polished and moved to another lathe for crowning. Once the barrel is more or less complete, it’s polished, marked, and packaged for shipment. The entire finish process from the time the barrel blank arrives takes about a half hour to complete. Just for reference, this process took Remington about a minute and a half to completely produce a center fire barrel.

To sum things up, time is money. The only way to take less time is to streamline using automated tooling and evolved processes in order to produce without sacrificing quality. When I first started, this process took all morning for one piece. Things change, processes change, people learn from mistakes, ect, ect… All of this time cost is considered to offer pricing that will deliver a great product as well as turn an acceptable profit. No one works for free, nor should they ever be expected to. This is capitalism at it’s finest. I hope it stays around a little while longer.

Now, for an insider’s scoop….some in this industry happen to use Green Mountain barrels and call them by their own made up name or say “this is proprietary info”, never the less, it’s a good product and mainly comes down to the finisher. Other finishers must include multiple layers of profit in order to pay both the guy you are buying the barrel from as well as the guy who is actually doing the work as well as anyone else in the chain of sale and distribution.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject…

JS
Thanks for a behind the scenes look at the work Green Mountain does.
I worked for a guy a few years ago that used GM barrels almost exclusively. Before I worked there he did a run of several hundred barreled actions for the Winchester custom shop using, you guessed it, GM barrels.
He shoots 1000 yard muzzleloading completion, using a rifle of his own manufacture. It has a GM tube with which he has set world records.
I have fit 2 or 3 dozen GM barrels between the ones I did when employed by him and for myself and others. All shot well, and none have ever had any accuracy issues.
GM barrels always deserve to be considered.
 
GM got their start in muzzle loading decades ago by a fellow named Branch Manly who was a muzzle loader guy and set some records that I never even knew existed. Anyhow, Branch added some significant advancements to the button barrel industry by the addition of strain gauges in the process. This addition let him know when the carbide button was at the end of its useful life. It also allowed him to pruloduce a very uniform product with the machinery of his time. Today, this is all common place in most machinery and all CNC machines, but at the time, he was a bit of a pioneer.

JS
 
Thank You.. I have a GM in .32 cal. for a Muzzle loader from the early 80"s. Always shot Great and Cleaned up Very easy..

Scott
 
Interesting post. I own 1 GM barrel on a 10/22 and it shoots. Thought maybe I just got lucky, but after reading your post, maybe they’re better barrels than I thought. Thanks for the info.
 
I thank You for the reminder of the processes of almost all business.
People often forget what it takes for businesses to open the doors, turn the lights on & pay their employees a fair wage.
 
I have put 5 rounds of Wolf Match Extra almost thru the same hole at 50 years with my GM you did for me
This is very common. There's no magic to any of this, but there are a great deal of folks in this industry who count on consumers to think there is, hence the ridiculous prices sometimes seen.

JS
 
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Thanks for posting up that info. I was surprised that you can finish the blank in only 30 minutes - that's impressive, I was expecting several hours! I love the heat treatment discolouration in your picture showing the 27" raw barrel before finishing BTW
 
I was surprised that you can finish the blank in only 30 minutes - that's impressive, I was expecting several hours!
I may have exaggerated, it probably takes 40 min, but just like any manufacturing operation, processes get streamlined due to the up front expense of good machine tools that get amortized over several thousand units or the units don't get sold. This isn't a Purdey shotgun getting made, its a very simple 2 axis rifle barrel.
I will say for the home hobbyist, it could easily take several hours, but that is to be expected and is part of the fun of it.

JS
 
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I know that a lot of .17 caliber shooters swear by GM barrels. I’d assume that if GM can make a tiny bore then the bigger stuff should be fine as well.
 
Here is a follow up of run times for the above mentioned barrel. With these times, I'll add about 11 minutes for breech trim, chamber & polish, 2 minutes for length cut, 8 minutes for OD belt sand and spin polish, 4 minutes for logo and caliber marking, and another 10 minutes for packaging and UPS label print out. These are average run times for each operation without distraction, working at an even pace, without rushing at all. These stated run times hold true regardless of what brand barrel blank is selected.

Staying on the phone and answering about 30 questions regarding the performance of the barrel, what's the best contour, what's the best length, what ammo shoots best, etc, ect, ect....could take days.

JS
 

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Well I had an issue with a lot and I mean a lot of FTF, Easy fix with a TT Diamond trigger , instead of the Timney single stage I was running , pretty sure the Timney will work but with some removal, of some of the cocking piece on the bolt, it was slowing down the firing pin and causing light strikes, now onto real ammo testing, but Wolf Match Extra is in the lead right now
 

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