Corrected details - WA 10 Round magazine limit

[ronsatspokane]

I would make the argument that a rifle capable of 600 yard effective range is not compatible with a home defense weapon. Optics, barrel length, attachments, and ammo for both of those criteria are significantly different. One of the fun parts of ar15s is having different uppers.

You want 600 yard effective range? Get a low to mid power variable optic and put an 16-20 inch 6 or 6.5 grendel variant upper with a bipod mounted. I like the 6mm better than 6.5 for grendel.

You want home defense with a mag restriction? take your pick of high energy close range ar 15 compatible rounds. Slap in a stronger spring and an adjustable gas block and your ar15 can chew anything you want and get more than double the energy per shot of 223 (450 bushmaster can get over 2.5k ftlbs).

Or you can use a shotgun. Which is better. Anything between nickel plated 4 buck and soft lead 00 works really well. I started out reloading for shotgun so I have done a lot of it. A lee loadall is like 50 bucks. Grab a couple hundred fgm hulls from a local trap club, some 12s4 wads (cut off petals off), some blue dot, and some bpi buckshot and you got cheap-ish home defense 12 gauge ammo you can tailor for recoil or function in any 12g. Its fun too. bpi has a good deal on number 1 buck which is the smallest I suggest for unplated lead. 16 pellet should be easy (4x4). Use 1 3/8 load data.

BAM 5% Antimony #1 Buck 7.65mm (22#)

The first Nickel-Plated Buckshot available to American handloaders. This is the finest buckshot we've ever seen! Antimonied lead core with a copper wash and then a thick nickel plating. Coyotes have met their match!

www.ballisticproducts.com

Should cost about .50 per shell. Which is about what the junkiest 9 pelllet 00 costs right now. 16#1 has 50% more cutting area per shot. Thats a ton more damage in home defense range. And number 1 buck is the smallest pellet size that meets fbi minimum penetration testing. Best home defense ammo on the planet in my opinion, that's why I made a ton of it. Doesn't kick bad with blue dot either.

Your argument is invalidated by a branch of competition called High Power. High Power competition involves target competition at 200, 300 and 600 yards. The required weapon is a military weapon. Most use AR15's in 5.56 caliber (most are 223 Wilde these days). Only recently were optics up to 4.5 power allowed. Traditionally the competition involved open sights. I know people who participate in said competition and still use open sights. The weapon of choice is of course the ultimate close range defense weapon as well. Ultimate unless you are a shotgun fan. Personally I prefer my CZ Scorpion carbine to both a shotgun and an AR for short range self defense. Of course self defense is not why we own firearms. We own firearms to insure that we maintain ownership of our government. Those firearms just happen to serve well in self defense roles as well as hunting roles.

 

[Brians356]

Not quite correct as I read it. Possession only if you can prove that you owned it prior to the legislation becoming active.

That wouldn't pass legal scrutiny IMO. It's up to the state to prove you bought it illegally. "Possession is nine points of the law." Otherwise a law has been passed requiring me to have a receipt for making a legal purchase decades ago, and If I cannot produce one I'm a criminal. Let's see what SCOTUS thinks of it.
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[ronsatspokane]

That wouldn't pass legal scrutiny IMO. It's up to the state to prove you bought it illegally. "Possession is nine points of the law." Otherwise a law has been passed requiring me to have a receipt for making a legal purchase decades ago, and If I cannot produce one I'm a criminal. Let's see what SCOTUS thinks of it.
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You are clearly not familiar with legal precedent in leftist states. In leftist states like the Peoples Republic of Washington (similar in CA, OR, IL, NY and other places) the accused is guilty until they can prove their innocence. Their property is forfeit upon accusations being leveled and their very lives may be forfeit if they resist.

 

[DocCarbon]

Then that's pretty much a simple dusting off of the old 1994 Clinton ban, if it targets commercial sales. Does "import" include a resident reentering WA state with a high-cap magazine? Can a WA resident sell an existing magazine to a private party inside WA state?
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What a crook of crap ,the inept mental midgets are : This would include Private sales as well ,although it primarily targets wholesalers dealers retailers ,it would also include private individuals . There is NO exception clause in Prohibits .

SB 5078 prohibits the sale of gun magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds, along with the manufacturing, distribution or import of high-capacity magazines in Washington state.



A high-capacity magazine is defined as an ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition, or any conversion kit, part or combination of parts that can be assembled to allow someone to carry more than 10 rounds.

The bill does not criminalize the possession of high-capacity magazines but instead focuses on the suppliers. Violating the law could result in a gross misdemeanor.

The high-capacity magazine ban has been proposed in the state legislature several times but failed to pass. The bill was re-introduced at the request of Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson, who first introduced the bill in 2016.

Ferguson released a statement on Twitter Friday night, saying "Today is the fulfillment of years of hard work from so many. More than five years ago, I stood with the parents of shooting victims, legislators, mayors, police chiefs and representatives from faith communities to say enough is enough and proposed banning the sale of high capacity magazines in Washington state."

"Today our Legislature chose public safety over the gun lobby, and I am deeply appreciative of their service. This policy will save lives and make our communities safer from gun violence," he said.

 

[joshb]

What a crook of crap ,the inept mental midgets are : This would include Private sales as well ,although it primarily targets wholesalers dealers retailers ,it would also include private individuals . There is NO exception clause in Prohibits .

SB 5078 prohibits the sale of gun magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds, along with the manufacturing, distribution or import of high-capacity magazines in Washington state.



A high-capacity magazine is defined as an ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition, or any conversion kit, part or combination of parts that can be assembled to allow someone to carry more than 10 rounds.

The bill does not criminalize the possession of high-capacity magazines but instead focuses on the suppliers. Violating the law could result in a gross misdemeanor.

The high-capacity magazine ban has been proposed in the state legislature several times but failed to pass. The bill was re-introduced at the request of Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson, who first introduced the bill in 2016.

Ferguson released a statement on Twitter Friday night, saying "Today is the fulfillment of years of hard work from so many. More than five years ago, I stood with the parents of shooting victims, legislators, mayors, police chiefs and representatives from faith communities to say enough is enough and proposed banning the sale of high capacity magazines in Washington state."

"Today our Legislature chose public safety over the gun lobby, and I am deeply appreciative of their service. This policy will save lives and make our communities safer from gun violence," he said.

 

[darkangel_r2]

Your argument is invalidated by a branch of competition called High Power. High Power competition involves target competition at 200, 300 and 600 yards. The required weapon is a military weapon. Most use AR15's in 5.56 caliber (most are 223 Wilde these days). Only recently were optics up to 4.5 power allowed. Traditionally the competition involved open sights. I know people who participate in said competition and still use open sights.

I think the point is very much still valid as competition shooting is not defensive shooting or hunting. Targets don't move or send stuff back at you. Plenty of time to align tiny pinhole irons when your shooting at a target. A proper optic makes 600 yard shots trivial with a bunch of ar15 calibers. Significantly improving hit percentage in a critical situation.

The weapon of choice is of course the ultimate close range defense weapon as well. Ultimate unless you are a shotgun fan.

I am a shotgun fan. In my opinion the longer it takes to incapacitate the target the more likely I am to get hurt. Shotguns have the highest probability of that time being 0.

Personally I prefer my CZ Scorpion carbine to both a shotgun and an AR for short range self defense.

Pccs are just a little low energy for me. At home defense ranges I can tolerate a lot more recoil and stay on target. I'd take some of the chunky ar15 chamberings first. But its miles ahead of a handgun that's for sure.

Of course self defense is not why we own firearms. We own firearms to insure that we maintain ownership of our government. Those firearms just happen to serve well in self defense roles as well as hunting roles.

Amen reverend.

 

[DocCarbon]

I'm now not allowed to criticize the WA legislator for their incompetence ?

 

[Brians356]

SB 5078 prohibits the sale of gun magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds, along with the manufacturing, distribution or import of high-capacity magazines in Washington state.
...
The bill does not criminalize the possession of high-capacity magazines but instead focuses on the suppliers.

"Sale, distribution, import, manufacturing" are the language of commerce and The Commerce Clause. It's clearly not crafted to criminalize private transfers. This is language similar to the 1994 Federal ban which could not touch retroactive private ownership or future private transfers, for good reason.

They seem to have backed down from criminalizing mere possession (prudently, for constitutional reasons) but hope to leave it vague enough to scare people out of private transfers. Of course that very vagueness is what makes it vulnerable to challenge.

Suppose I have a high-cap magazine, and I hand it to you. Some time later you hand me a twenty dollar bill. Some time later we shake hands. Some time later we go our separate ways. What can the state realistically do about that?
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[ronsatspokane]

"Sale, distribution, import, manufacturing" are the language of commerce and The Commerce Clause. It's clearly not crafted to criminalize private transfers. This is language similar to the 1994 Federal ban which could not touch retroactive private ownership or future private transfers, for good reason.

They seem to have backed down from criminalizing mere possession (prudently, for constitutional reasons) but hope to leave it vague enough to scare people out of private transfers. Of course that very vagueness is what makes it vulnerable to challenge.

Suppose I have a high-cap magazine, and I hand it to you. Some time later you hand me a twenty dollar bill. Some time later we shake hands. Some time later we go our separate ways. What can the state realistically do about that?
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What can the state do? They can make you a criminal. That is the purpose, to create as many criminals as they can. That way the current witch hunts wherein anyone who disagrees with the left is labeled a domestic terrorist bears the fruit they have been cultivating for a couple of generations. These people have no scruples. Many are stupid or ignorant but those leading the charge are motivated by evil intent.

 

[NETim]

“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”​

― Ayn Rand

 

[Brians356]

What can the state do? They can make you a criminal.

I asked "realistically do". There's a reason why they backed down from making mere possession of existing magazines illegal. As starry-eyed as WA gun-grabbers are, it's likely the attorney general, and possibly even Governor Moonbeam, at least understand wasting time crafting laws which can be readily challenged, and which are impractical to enforce for many reasons, not least of which is political. There's nothing close to universal support for this law. You must know that similar laws have failed to pass in WA at least once in the recent past. So have attempts to enact a carbon tax. My take on it is absent language including private transfers, it's never going to be realistically enforceable at the private level.
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[ronsatspokane]

I asked "realistically do". There's a reason why they backed down from making mere possession of existing magazines illegal. As starry-eyed as WA gun-grabbers are, it's likely the attorney general, and possibly even Governor Moonbeam, at least understand wasting time crafting laws which can be readily challenged, and which are impractical to enforce for many reasons, not least of which is political. There's nothing close to universal support for this law. You must know that similar laws have failed to pass in WA at least once in the recent past. So have attempts to enact a carbon tax. My take on it is absent language including private transfers, it's never going to be realistically enforceable at the private level.
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I do agree. As commerce is increasingly taxed at absurd rates or forbidden for social engineering purposes as well as for simple public sector greed and control reasons, more and more of the business individuals engage in will be via the grey/black market. I've spent time in countries where a large percentage of daily business is conducted under the table. In those countries anything can be had with the payment of one or more bribes to public sector employees. That is clearly the direction we are headed in the US.

 

[PhilC]

I asked "realistically do". There's a reason why they backed down from making mere possession of existing magazines illegal. As starry-eyed as WA gun-grabbers are, it's likely the attorney general, and possibly even Governor Moonbeam, at least understand wasting time crafting laws which can be readily challenged, and which are impractical to enforce for many reasons, not least of which is political. There's nothing close to universal support for this law. You must know that similar laws have failed to pass in WA at least once in the recent past. So have attempts to enact a carbon tax. My take on it is absent language including private transfers, it's never going to be realistically enforceable at the private level.
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I agree. They cannot control this, but they can, and did, restrict new sales within (key word) WA. Mag sales in ID and OR will continue after July 1st so this is simply "feel good" legislation.

 

[243Mendoza]

Not quite correct as I read it. Possession only if you can prove that you owned it prior to the legislation becoming active.

So how do you prove that you purchased a magazine bought 30years ago. Do you have to have a receipt whenever you use the mag!

I don't think so. It would be hard to prove otherwise most mags in possession would be illegal. Is there now a state program to hand in all 'illegal' mags?

 

[Keith Glasscock]

So how do you prove that you purchased a magazine bought 30years ago. Do you have to have a receipt whenever you use the mag!

I don't think so. It would be hard to prove otherwise most mags in possession would be illegal. Is there now a state program to hand in all 'illegal' mags?

No, The new law does not affect possession. There is even an exception in the law for those of us that already have magazines to take them out of state and return with them legally. I would encourage everyone in the state to stock up now, and keep going until July 1.

I despise the law, but it isn't as bad as many here are imagining. After all, some of our legislators got amendments that eliminated the possession verbiage.

From my standpoint, I have pictures of me and my family with the magazines in my possession and an indisputable date display stored with the magazines. I also keep copies digitally, just for my protection.

I was at a LGS today, and they need to sell all of their handguns that have magazines with them before July 1. I would encourage anyone in Washington state to go visit their LGS and buy that pistol they always wanted. This is not about getting a good deal, it's about keeping your LGS in business.

 

[bpd459]

Greetings,
Let’s Go Inslee! Let’s go Ferguson!
This BS “law” is useless and will do nothing. WA’s liberals have reduced the penalties for Drive By Shootings because existing law was “racist”.

A once great and free state is now, sadly dead.

John

 

[spencerhenry]

When Colorado did this I bought magazines for rifles I didn’t even own. Still don’t, but just in case I have plenty of mags.

 

[ronsatspokane]

No, The new law does not affect possession. There is even an exception in the law for those of us that already have magazines to take them out of state and return with them legally. I would encourage everyone in the state to stock up now, and keep going until July 1.

I despise the law, but it isn't as bad as many here are imagining. After all, some of our legislators got amendments that eliminated the possession verbiage.

From my standpoint, I have pictures of me and my family with the magazines in my possession and an indisputable date display stored with the magazines. I also keep copies digitally, just for my protection.

I was at a LGS today, and they need to sell all of their handguns that have magazines with them before July 1. I would encourage anyone in Washington state to go visit their LGS and buy that pistol they always wanted. This is not about getting a good deal, it's about keeping your LGS in business.

I'm going to take pictures of each of my mags next to my dick. If they want to see the pictures I'll hand them over to the perverts.

 

[joshb]

I'm going to take pictures of each of my mags next to my dick. If they want to see the pictures I'll hand them over to the perverts.

That could go either way. They might “comparatively speaking” look like 40 rounders or ten rounders!

 

[dellet]

Something I might have missed being mentioned, is that most plastic magazines will be date stamped. Not likely to be able to prove possession pre-ban, but could certainly prove it was not.
Manufactured 6/13.