Correct usage of Tempilaq for annealing.

[jlow]

I am using the 750 F Tempilaq for this purpose. The instruction on the bottle says that it “will liquefy at stated temperature”. Unfortunately, I hand anneal by putting the case in a socket and rotating with a hand drill so kind of hard to see the liquefaction when it is moving.

What I find is illustrated in the photo of two 223 rejects that I tested the Tempilaq on. The one on the right is the case with the Tempilaq painted on and dried but un-annealed. The one on the left is the same except it has been annealed. It looks to me that the Tempilaq when it liquefies will evaporate. Does this look right to you guys with experience?

 

[watercam]

The Tempilaq is never supposed to come in contact with the flame. I looks as if it was applied to the outside of the neck? Apply a small drop inside the neck. When it liquifies you are done. It does not evaporate and if allowed to cool becomes a hardened, clear puddle. Try and wipe it out while still hot (Q-tip) and you will save yourself a tougher job later.
If you are using the Hornady kit, the Tempilaq they supply is 475 deg. that is meant to be applied to the side of the case 1/4" below the shoulder. The theory being that the case wall will (should) be cooler than the neck which is being heated directly from the flame.
Best of luck! It gets easier with practice...

 

[jlow]

Thanks! I did not realize that it was not suppose to come in contact with the flame… I can try to put it inside the neck but not worried about the mess since I am using rejected brass anyway - just trying to verify the annealing time. Not using the Hornady but stuff brought from McMaster Carr. Will try the Q-tip trick to see if I can see if it liquefies.

 

[amlevin]

This is why I prefer the "tempilstik" heat crayon. I heat while turning in a heavy impact, deep socket and merely measure the amount of time for the shoulder to reach 750 degrees by checking frequently with the crayon. The moment the crayon smears when touching the shoulder I mark the time. From there it's merely a case of the amount of time the case neck is left in the flame.

Same way as all the mechanical annealers with just more "sex appeal" and higher price to go with it.

 

[jlow]

It’s interesting you say that because in some ways, I’ve come full circle. What I mean is I started with the crayon a while ago but could not get them to work. The reason is when I got my crayons, what I found was sticks that seemed very dry almost powdery. At first, I thought you were supposed to use the crayons to write on the cases and then watch for it to melt, but then I realized that they work by writing only surfaces that are heated to the correct temp.

One difficulty I had with this is that it seems to require just one hand more than I had and I don’t seem to be able to get the crayon on to the brass before it cooled, this was the impetus for me to go to the liquid. So obviously I am likely not using the right technique?

 

[amlevin]

One difficulty I had with this is that it seems to require just one hand more than I had and I don’t seem to be able to get the crayon on to the brass before it cooled, this was the impetus for me to go to the liquid. So obviously I am likely not using the right technique?

The method I've come up with seems to work well for me. I set my Bernz-O-Matic torch on the counter and hold the cordless drill in my right. Load a case into the deep socket with left then hold the case in the flame. I pick up the crayon and hold it fairly close to the rotating socket but clear of the flame. I move the case from the flame and quickly touch the shoulder where it joins the side of the case. It's only a matter of 6 inches or so and when the crayon just starts to make a smear on the case I mark that time for subsequent case heating times. I don't use the crayon on every case, just a few in the beginning until I determine how many seconds to keep the case in the flame with its current adjustment.

Just finished a batch of 50 Lapua .308 cases yesterday and when lined up after cooling the colors were almost exactly the same and the "heat line" was at almost exactly the same height above the base.

It took some practice to get this worked out. At first it was a bunch of fumbling but now, no big deal.

 

[jlow]

Thanks amlevin - that sounds like a winning solution. Will give it a try.

 

[243Mendoza]

I use the 750 for the top half of the case and the 350 for the bottom half.

 

[Scott Harris]

I put it on the inside of the neck and down the outside like you show. For proper annealing, I aim to keep it under the flame for 3-4 seconds after I see the tempilac inside the neck vaporize (around 8 seconds total with 3 flames). I use the outside tempilac to verify I am not over-annealing: only want to see it vaporize just beneath the shoulder-body junction.

 

[Forum Boss]

I put it on the inside of the neck and down the outside like you show. For proper annealing, I aim to keep it under the flame for 3-4 seconds after I see the tempilac inside the neck vaporize (around 8 seconds total with 3 flames). I use the outside tempilac to verify I am not over-annealing: only want to see it vaporize just beneath the shoulder-body junction.

There's nothing wrong with what Scott is doing and he is monitoring his temps correctly. However I want to emphasize that with some higher output sytems, eight seconds is WAY too long for the dwell time and you will ruin your cases. In this Benchsource demo, the cartridge is centered in the middle of the twin torches for about 4 seconds. (The flame is the Tempilaq burning off). With some other machines and high-heat torches, the right dwell time can be be closer to two seconds!

IMPORTANT -- You can't simple adopt a dwell time from someone else. You have to determine the correct dwell time with YOUR equipment, your fuel, and your brass.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXzARG5Qz0[/youtube]

 

[Martin52]

Tempilaq inside the case neck has not produced good results for me, it is difficult to moniitor the melt point.
I use 475 deg Tempilaq about quarter to half inch below the case neck/shoulder junction. I put the case in a socket chucked in a low rpm drill and with the flame on the neck, watch the tempilaq change from dry to liquid as the melt point is reached. Then tip the case onto a damp towel to cool.
For .308 Lapua brass I find 6 seconds using a single gas torch is about right.

Martin

 

[jlow]

Thanks for all the additional advice – some great ones there! I am doing hand annealing with only one torch and so will likely be using something in the 10 second range but will verify with the Tempilaq.

 

[amlevin]

Thanks for all the additional advice – some great ones there! I am doing hand annealing with only one torch and so will likely be using something in the 10 second range but will verify with the Tempilaq.

To paraphrase a line from the movie "Jaws", you're going to need a bigger torch.

I have an older "Bernz" with the manual knob and that throws a pencil point flame rather than the spread "blast" some of he new ones do. With the flame on full it takes my .308 Lapua cases exactly 4 seconds to reach the proper temp. I have a small torch that puts out a flame about the size of a q-tip that takes 10 seconds. I prefer the larger one.

 

[jlow]

Thanks for all the additional advice – some great ones there! I am doing hand annealing with only one torch and so will likely be using something in the 10 second range but will verify with the Tempilaq.

To paraphrase a line from the movie "Jaws", you're going to need a bigger torch.

I have an older "Bernz" with the manual knob and that throws a pencil point flame rather than the spread "blast" some of he new ones do. With the flame on full it takes my .308 Lapua cases exactly 4 seconds to reach the proper temp. I have a small torch that puts out a flame about the size of a q-tip that takes 10 seconds. I prefer the larger one.

Interesting you say that because I have two different types of torches. One that use the blue propane bottle and another that use the MAP/PRO gas bottle. I find the MAP/PRO gas torch much too hot for annealing and prefer the propane torch that takes 10 seconds as it gives me finer control and less of a chance for over annealing.

 

[Martin52]

I have one of the newer Bernz torches, uses a yellow canister, not the blue one. The gas in the yellow bottle is supposed to produce a hotter flame. 6 seconds and the 475 deg Tempilaq begins to melt about 1/4 to half inch below the shoulder on my 308 lapua brass. To achieve this in 4 seconds with a single gas torch is pretty quick - what temperature measuring technique do you use ?

Martin

 

[xdeano]

i always seem to end up with some templaq residue on the outside of my cases when i get done. To get that crap off and not in your action, just take some of your wife/girlfriends finger nail polish remover and it'll come right off. Or acetone, same stuff. And it makes the brass nice and clean.

xdeano

 

[amlevin]

An interesting experience yesterday while annealing. Had about 150 cases I was annealing after loading them about half a dozen times. All had been inspected for signs impending case head failure and neck splits prior to the annealing session.

When the cases had cooled, I spotted one that looked "different". Lo and behold, the neck had split from mouth to beginning of the shoulder. Apparently the process had brought out a latent crack.

Anyone else have this happen?

 

[gilream]

Looks about right to me Jlow...I too use the Tempilac 750 and the drill & socket method. After a really good cleaning so the brass is nice and shiny, I place the liquid inside the case mouths (not on the outside) of 3 or 4 cases. I set my laptop (you can use a smart phone too) on my bench with www.webmetronome.com open and set the metronome to 60 beats per minute. Dim the lights so that I can make sure the case neck/shoulder is in the tip of flame and steady. With the first case, count seconds in the flame for 4 seconds then dump quickly the case onto a damp towel. Second case count 5 seconds and drop. Third case, 6 seconds. Let them cool. Keep up with which was first, second, third etc. Now examine the insides of the necks after they cool a bit. The first or second case should have some color left in the case neck. The first one that is melted (it turns black) is the correct timing to anneal. I’m guessing that a .223 case will not take as long as a belted magnum. After that you simply crank up the metronome and ancor the torch and have at it. It works for me. Thank you Boyd Allen for your guidance.

 

[gilream]

I put it on the inside of the neck and down the outside like you show. For proper annealing, I aim to keep it under the flame for 3-4 seconds after I see the tempilac inside the neck vaporize (around 8 seconds total with 3 flames). I use the outside tempilac to verify I am not over-annealing: only want to see it vaporize just beneath the shoulder-body junction.

There's nothing wrong with what Scott is doing and he is monitoring his temps correctly. However I want to emphasize that with some higher output sytems, eight seconds is WAY too long for the dwell time and you will ruin your cases. In this Benchsource demo, the cartridge is centered in the middle of the twin torches for about 4 seconds. (The flame is the Tempilaq burning off). With some other machines and high-heat torches, the right dwell time can be be closer to two seconds!

IMPORTANT -- You can't simple adopt a dwell time from someone else. You have to determine the correct dwell time with YOUR equipment, your fuel, and your brass.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXzARG5Qz0[/youtube]

Excellent advice

 

[gilream]

Thanks for all the additional advice – some great ones there! I am doing hand annealing with only one torch and so will likely be using something in the 10 second range but will verify with the Tempilaq.

To paraphrase a line from the movie "Jaws", you're going to need a bigger torch.

I have an older "Bernz" with the manual knob and that throws a pencil point flame rather than the spread "blast" some of he new ones do. With the flame on full it takes my .308 Lapua cases exactly 4 seconds to reach the proper temp. I have a small torch that puts out a flame about the size of a q-tip that takes 10 seconds. I prefer the larger one.

Interesting you say that because I have two different types of torches. One that use the blue propane bottle and another that use the MAP/PRO gas bottle. I find the MAP/PRO gas torch much too hot for annealing and prefer the propane torch that takes 10 seconds as it gives me finer control and less of a chance for over annealing.

I've only used the blue bottle propane with the finger tip blue flame. Can't imagine any brass case needing more than 5 or 6 seconds in the flame.