Cooper Arms 1989-2009

[Bamaslammer]

What caused your exit and your barrel supplier to buy the company?

Oh honestly I think I was simply worn down.

Welcome Dan, I am fortunate to own a number of Cooper's rifles. Among them is a single digit serial number Cooper Peregrine falling block action in 218 Bee. How many of the Peregrines did Cooper produce? Thank you.

I don't a 223 would fit in a M38 but thanks for the response. Where there any failures with the M38 due to the small lugs?

As I recall a friend and wheat farmer in N Montana managed to set the lugs back after what he claimed were about 15,000 rounds of hot 17 Hornet loads but there was never a failure of the 38 or any other action, They're all very very strong, I think I said in another post this came from the advice of Bill Ruger who simply said it wasn't worth the sacrifice and risk to build on the border.

 

[Bamaslammer]

Most excellent to have you here with us, Dan. I've got three Cooper VR's, a Phoenix and a MTV in "rat calibers". All shoot my pet loads into 1/4" or less, all are keepers.

Wish I had some pertinent questions for you, but the rifles just plain shoot, so I'm happy with just that.
Welcome aboard!

thank you sir

 

[Bamaslammer]

Dan thanks for sharing the story

My pleasure sir

 

[Bamaslammer]

Dan,
I have massive respect for the guns designed and sold during your time at the helm. Almost exclusively single-shots, amazing list of useful wildcat chamberings and (IMO) fairly priced products. In recent years it’s seemed that the company has forgotten which customers brought Cooper to the dance.

Thank you sir for your kind comments. I appreciate it,

 

[JohnHenry]

Only about 25. OMG they were the coolest to make too! I’d love to make them again.

Dan, Thanks for the info on the Peregrines. Would like to test your memory/records again. I also own a Model 38 P.O. Ackley Commemorative in 17AH. How many of that special run were produced? Thanks!

 

[thekriebles]

Dan, Thanks for the info on the Peregrines. Would like to test your memory/records again. I also own a Model 38 P.O. Ackley Commemorative in 17AH. How many of that special run were produced? Thanks!

I believe only "17" were made. I have one as well. I'll be eager to see his response too.

 

[Tommie]

Dan,
Really great to have you here and how open you are to all our questions! And I do have another question. What was the reason for using so many different barrel manufacturers throughout the years?

 

[Bamaslammer]

One question I have is this, Where did you source barrels throughout the years? And what are your thoughts on past and current barrel makers.

few more

For the rifles you guys built what did you do for bedding? I would imagine the guys that did it in house for a living got pretty good at it. Do you have any estimate or data on how much time went in and to bedding? A complete rifle?

Now that you are not involved with cooper firearms what are some of the rifles you built for yourself

What caused your exit and your barrel supplier to buy the company?

Complicated decision. In large part because I failed to get the Montana home base manufacturing folks on board with the OH expansion. They felt that I was going to move everything to OH. But that was not the plan. The plan was to introduce a base line most accurate repeater production rifle ever made that would compete with the big boys. And keep the custom line in MT so I could increase their wages and benefits, isolating the 2 operations in a financial and accounting function. After 20 yrs without vacation and the best years of my life and conversations with the head of Leopold, I knew if Cooper were to survive it had to have a pro at the helm…someone who didn’t have the personal ties to the employees to make the business and investment decisions to take it further. There had been a couple people try to buy Cooper prior to 2008 but I considered them hacks all except for one and I think I am still bound by confidentiality not to mention one of America's finest optics company. George and Linda Wilson had recently sold the bbl business. I had the M52 ready to roll out and I was so proud of it (I guess so was Outdoor Life since it was their rifle of the year). I decided to give exit a shot and enlisted George and Linda's business broker. The new owner of Wilson wanted to expand further and after all Cooper Arms was the flagship company of accuracy that used Wilson bbl exclusively. Thats about it. There were personal issues too, a failed marriage and new found love in OH. If I had it to other wise, I would have expanded Cooper and added a handgun to the line based on the Sig P210 (love that handgun). Wearing my heart on my sleeve....time to stop LOL

 

[Bamaslammer]

Question, may I request an overview and goals/ purpose of the 17CCM? Interesting cartridge, but for what/why, would love to hear the story.

-Mac

Enter Mike Hill. Commonly known in close circles as my Uncle Mike. Enter Todd Kindler, David Kidd, Pete Rose, Glen Nepil, Hal Marr (Hal Marr knives and Soldier of Fortune), RCBS, Bill Wiseman, Dieter Anschutz, Fiocchi, Jimmy Calhoun, Walt Berger, the reamer people, good lord the list goes on and on...I never wanted to really make the 17CCM simply because of the powders available and the pressures this little guy produced. Simply stated...gophers explode with a little cartridge pushing 3400 fps and thanks to all the above and the 38 action sub 1/2" MOA was easy.
I presented then President H. W, Bush with one of the first 17 CCM's in fall of 1992 on opening day of hunting season hunting season in MT. This would start a casual relationship with the President whom I loved and admired. Ever get a call from Bethesda operator number 85? LOL After I presented the rifle, a ride in the Pres limo, and a call to the factory from Air Force One to all the people at Cooper, about a month later we received what is nothing less than a coffin, a carefully crafted box and a note from the President asking that we scope the rifle and send ammo and a check. (the check was pretty nice LOL) coming off of the victory in KUWAIT who aint gonna do the Pres a favor. We scoped the rifle and sent 200 rounds of the last of the 17 CCM ammo/brass we had...all hand loaded and shipped it back.
A month goes by and I get yet another call...Bethesda 85...honestly they are the greatest calls to get "This is Bethesda operator 85 I have a call for Daniel Cooper from the President of the United States" who in the hell aint gonna answer that LOL...i'm like "yes Mr President what can I do for you?' "Well Dan the Marine Sharp Shooter team shot up all my ammo at Camp David. They can't believe how accurate the rifle is. Can you get me some more ammo? I'm going on a turkey hunt with Rhodes in TX." We did the best and produced.
Then comes the real shocker, it was Sunday night at the factory about 10:30pm, I was having a Johnny blk and looking over things (wonder why my marriage failed?lol) here comes the call, thought it was my wife but no good ole Bethesda operator 85...Pres Bush: "Dan, Rhodes is here with me and we can't get the rifle to feed" Through several attempts by the Pres he tuned it over to Rhodes and we finally got it to work...the mag was not fully clicked in.
In my book if its good enough for Pres G W Bush and Todd Kindler it's good enough for me

 

[Bamaslammer]

Enter Mike Hill. Commonly known in close circles as my Uncle Mike. Enter Todd Kindler, David Kidd, Pete Rose, Glen Nepil, Hal Marr (Hal Marr knives and Soldier of Fortune), RCBS, Bill Wiseman, Dieter Anschutz, Fiocchi, Jimmy Calhoun, Walt Berger, the reamer people, good lord the list goes on and on...I never wanted to really make the 17CCM simply because of the powders available and the pressures this little guy produced. Simply stated...gophers explode with a little cartridge pushing 3400 fps and thanks to all the above and the 38 action sub 1/2" MOA was easy.
I presented then President H. W, Bush with one of the first 17 CCM's in fall of 1992 on opening day of hunting season hunting season in MT. This would start a casual relationship with the President whom I loved and admired. Ever get a call from Bethesda operator number 85? LOL After I presented the rifle, a ride in the Pres limo, and a call to the factory from Air Force One to all the people at Cooper, about a month later we received what is nothing less than a coffin, a carefully crafted box and a note from the President asking that we scope the rifle and send ammo and a check. (the check was pretty nice LOL) coming off of the victory in KUWAIT who aint gonna do the Pres a favor. We scoped the rifle and sent 200 rounds of the last of the 17 CCM ammo/brass we had...all hand loaded and shipped it back.
A month goes by and I get yet another call...Bethesda 85...honestly they are the greatest calls to get "This is Bethesda operator 85 I have a call for Daniel Cooper from the President of the United States" who in the hell aint gonna answer that LOL...i'm like "yes Mr President what can I do for you?' "Well Dan the Marine Sharp Shooter team shot up all my ammo at Camp David. They can't believe how accurate the rifle is. Can you get me some more ammo? I'm going on a turkey hunt with Rhodes in TX." We did the best and produced.
Then comes the real shocker, it was Sunday night at the factory about 10:30pm, I was having a Johnny blk and looking over things (wonder why my marriage failed?lol) here comes the call, thought it was my wife but no good ole Bethesda operator 85...Pres Bush: "Dan, Rhodes is here with me and we can't get the rifle to feed" Through several attempts by the Pres he tuned it over to Rhodes and we finally got it to work...the mag was not fully clicked in.
In my book if its good enough for Pres G W Bush and Todd Kindler it's good enough for me

 

[Prose]

This thread is absolutely fantastic. Always wanted a cooper with those sexy Buick vents. Did you call them Buick vents? Who came up with those? Did anyone think they were horribly ugly.

 

[Bamaslammer]

another comment and this is the only one that I will respond regarding politics, when the "Obama thing" took place at Cooper I received my last call from Pres GW Bush and then Gov Brian Schweitzer saying Politics is crazy and just stay in there" President Bush said politics is crazy and to stay my ground but stay off social media and let it rest" I miss my Presidents, I miss GW and Bush 2. I never liked Clinton nor his wife. Pelosi is possibly the worse thing that has happen to American let alone Bernie LOL OMG we are not socialists we are AMERICANS those that love freedom and trust a messed up congress to guide policy for the betterment of this country,
There is no doubt that the second amendment stays, I expose the famous saying and employ the NRA,,,you can have my gun when you drive my cold dead hand from it

 

[Tommie]

another comment and this is the only one that I will respond regarding politics, when the "Obama thing" took place at Cooper I received my last call from Pres GW Bush and then Gov Brian Schweitzer saying Politics is crazy and just stay in there" President Bush said politics is crazy and to stay my ground but stay off social media and let it rest" I miss my Presidents, I miss GW and Bush 2. I never liked Clinton nor his wife. Pelosi is possibly the worse thing that has happen to American let alone Bernie LOL OMG we are not socialists we are AMERICANS those that love freedom and trust a messed up congress to guide policy for the betterment of this country,
There is no doubt that the second amendment stays, I expose the famous saying and employ the NRA,,,you can have my gun when you drive my cold dead hand from it

Folks-
And with that, let’s end the political questions to Dan. Fair enough?

 

[Jager]

Utterly fascinating thread!

Dan, not asking you to lob rocks at anyone, or throw anyone under the bus... but what's your opinion of the quality of current-manufacture Cooper rifles? I recently tried to find a Model 21 Montana Varminter in .222 Rem and couldn't find one anywhere. Part of that is my fondness for an out-of-favor caliber, no doubt... but it definitely seems like the factory is selling everything they can make.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[mac86951]

Enter Mike Hill. Commonly known in close circles as my Uncle Mike. Enter Todd Kindler, David Kidd, Pete Rose, Glen Nepil, Hal Marr (Hal Marr knives and Soldier of Fortune), RCBS, Bill Wiseman, Dieter Anschutz, Fiocchi, Jimmy Calhoun, Walt Berger, the reamer people, good lord the list goes on and on...I never wanted to really make the 17CCM simply because of the powders available and the pressures this little guy produced. Simply stated...gophers explode with a little cartridge pushing 3400 fps and thanks to all the above and the 38 action sub 1/2" MOA was easy.
I presented then President H. W, Bush with one of the first 17 CCM's in fall of 1992 on opening day of hunting season hunting season in MT. This would start a casual relationship with the President whom I loved and admired. Ever get a call from Bethesda operator number 85? LOL After I presented the rifle, a ride in the Pres limo, and a call to the factory from Air Force One to all the people at Cooper, about a month later we received what is nothing less than a coffin, a carefully crafted box and a note from the President asking that we scope the rifle and send ammo and a check. (the check was pretty nice LOL) coming off of the victory in KUWAIT who aint gonna do the Pres a favor. We scoped the rifle and sent 200 rounds of the last of the 17 CCM ammo/brass we had...all hand loaded and shipped it back.
A month goes by and I get yet another call...Bethesda 85...honestly they are the greatest calls to get "This is Bethesda operator 85 I have a call for Daniel Cooper from the President of the United States" who in the hell aint gonna answer that LOL...i'm like "yes Mr President what can I do for you?' "Well Dan the Marine Sharp Shooter team shot up all my ammo at Camp David. They can't believe how accurate the rifle is. Can you get me some more ammo? I'm going on a turkey hunt with Rhodes in TX." We did the best and produced.
Then comes the real shocker, it was Sunday night at the factory about 10:30pm, I was having a Johnny blk and looking over things (wonder why my marriage failed?lol) here comes the call, thought it was my wife but no good ole Bethesda operator 85...Pres Bush: "Dan, Rhodes is here with me and we can't get the rifle to feed" Through several attempts by the Pres he tuned it over to Rhodes and we finally got it to work...the mag was not fully clicked in.
In my book if its good enough for Pres G W Bush and Todd Kindler it's good enough for me

Fantastic; thanks Dan that's a great story; and 24/7 manufacturing has cost more than a few spouses, bit a ride in the Limo? Priceless.

 

[DGP4]

No questions here. Just want to thank you as a legendary rifle maker for being so generous with your time as to post a fascinating story of Cooper Rifles! On second thought I do have a question. If you were to build any rifle of your choice today, what would it be?

 

[Wenzl]

Dan, just wanted to say thank you… For many things but especially the 17 CCM which brought me some of my best rifle memories!

I had a model DLC 21, and was told it started life as a magazine fed but was somehow converted to single shot. Brought me many awesome memories!

Much of the original brass it came with either had and/or was splitting neck.Since it came with an extra 17 &22 CCM barrel, I decided to have the extra 17 CCM barrel made into a short 17CCM to still use that brass. it was like a 17 Mach 2 shooting HMR velocity.

I bought a bunch of Schroeder made 17 (&22) CCM brass which functioned great. I also got my hands on a bunch of Hornady reject 17 gr vmax bullets which combined with RamShot Enforcer was by accident a perfect combination. I always preferred your 17CCM over the short because driving that 17 gr vmax at around 3450 fps was awesome on prairie dogs! Todd Kindler was kind enough to publish an article in SCN on my short version of your awesome 17CCM.

One time I was shooting PDs with my friend Rem and Doug (who worked at Hornady) who Doug (who was spotting at the time) turned and asked me, “What the hell are you shooting those PDs with?” The quiet 17CCM was just putting PDs to sleep (very quickly clean 1-shot kills) way beyond what it should have been doing (like 300 yards). Sorry, I could go on and on…

Sadly in a weak moment when I wasn’t shooting much due to my arthritis, I sold it and still miss it. Still shoot the 22 CCM in a contender barrel but the awesome memories are still with me!

Met you at I think the 2009 shot show when my good friend Ray H pointed you out. I believe you was with the owner of Wilson Barrels. It was awesome to put a DLC personality with my CCMs!

Thank you again!

 

[KillnStick]

Dan, thanks for some fine rifles. I’ve had the pleasure of owning 7 of your M21’s and M38’s. My favorite is a M38 classic in 17AH as a walk around laser beam. My good friend BAM is the reason I own so many of these fine single shots.

 

[Bamaslammer]

Dan, Thanks for the info on the Peregrines. Would like to test your memory/records again. I also own a Model 38 P.O. Ackley Commemorative in 17AH. How many of that special run were produced? Thanks!

There were only 50 produced according the records I have.

 

[JohnHenry]

There were only 50 produced according the records I have.

Thanks Dan!