Constitutional Carry in Kentucky

[338 Mollett]

As a resident in Kentucky I can't say I'm all for this.There is nothing wrong with going to a class to learn about the laws involved in case you have to pull that pistol.Though I appreciate a victory for gun rights I feel just because you are 21 and a law abiding citizen does not make you qualified to carry a gun.I can hear the counter arguments "If our kids can get their ass shot off in Iraq why shouldn't they be allowed to carry on our streets etc..etc.."My response to that is there is not a Master Sergeant looking over their shoulder on the streets.This also raises the tension for our boys in blue that is not needed,their job is tough enough!I can understand the point made of stopping mass shootings but I fear the one on one cases will go up.Lastly the fact of lack of common sense,discipline in our society is just going to give us a longer rope to hang ourselves in the eyes of liberals.People need more training period,and that means everybody. Ralph Mollett

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

As a resident in Kentucky I can't say I'm all for this.There is nothing wrong with going to a class to learn about the laws involved in case you have to pull that pistol.Though I appreciate a victory for gun rights I feel just because you are 21 and a law abiding citizen does not make you qualified to carry a gun.I can hear the counter arguments "If our kids can get their ass shot off in Iraq why shouldn't they be allowed to carry on our streets etc..etc.."My response to that is there is not a Master Sergeant looking over their shoulder on the streets.This also raises the tension for our boys in blue that is not needed,their job is tough enough!I can understand the point made of stopping mass shootings but I fear the one on one cases will go up.Lastly the fact of lack of common sense,discipline in our society is just going to give us a longer rope to hang ourselves in the eyes of liberals.People need more training period,and that means everybody. Ralph Mollett

Another Ky. resident here...I feel like 99% of people who were gonna carry, are already doing so either legally or illegally. We've always been able to carry openly, this is about, literally, whether you wear your shirt tucked in or leaving it out. One way is concealed and the other is open carry. Ultimately, it's about personal responsibility. I'm all for being well trained and educated on the laws and just feel like that is part of personal responsibility if you choose to carry a weapon, openly or concealed matters little if any. I think that law enforcement has had to assume everyone is armed for a long, long time. The cc permit just told him that it was more likely that the person is armed but of "less" threat than someone armed without being permitted.
I certainly understand and see your point of view. I just think and hope it's much less of a concern than it is being hyped up to be during debate on the issue.
I was a cc holder for years but decided to let it lapse. With the laws about how a weapon can be stored in a vehicle being so easy to conform with, to me it was almost entirely about being stopped while walking and being frisked, which was highly unlikely and if I ever actually needed a gun, the last thing I'd be worried about is a card in my wallet. IOW, I could already carry most places without a permit, as long as it was in sight or in a factory compartment in my vehicle. The permit became a tax on my right to be armed, IMHO.
I think openly carrying was hurting our cause more than helping due to the intimidation/fear factor when someone sees a gun on your side. As long as they don't see it, everybody is happy. Gun shops should proactively recommend training to anyone buying a gun that isn't familiar and proficient with one, regardless. Most of those people are very open to just that. Those that give instruction may be better off than before in that regard if they aggressively market their services to gun shop owners. The ccw classes and permits are still available to those that want to take them. I assume that instructors can cover the same basic material without permit issuance and keep more of the money, rather than giving it to the state. They could lower the class price significantly or keep what they would otherwise pay to the state for the permit. I suppose they could have the same class and two fees...one that includes the permit and one that is for training only.
Just my thoughts, fwiw.

 

[338 Mollett]

^ Your feelings are appreciated and well thought out.

 

[powderbrake]

In Missouri we now have constitutional carry, anyone can carry concealed without a CC license. The old CC licensing system is still in place, so if you want to take the classes and shooting tests, you get the CC License, which means you can carry in many other states. It is still the best approach, everyone getting the training gives us all a nice warm feeling. BUT.... it is now the law, and we have to learn to trust our fellow citizens.

I am an NRA certified instructor, and I have seen some pretty bad examples of gun handling, but I have keep telling myself that it is going to be OK. So far in the last year I have not read of any Missouri problems because of the new carry law.

 

[GotRDid]

I am 20 yr retired L.E., All-Skills Firearms Instructor and can absolutely attest to poor firearms handling is not isolated to the uninformed, young or even civilians. Brilliant points mentioned above shine on their own merit, so no need to reiterate their logic/reason. I wholeheartedly agree that Constitutional Carry is a good thing; I carry under LEOSA. I have continued to share the range with Friends, former Partners, their Children (and now one of the Granddaughters), and freely provide the opportunity for them to learn (and improve) their skill sets as responsible firearms owners/shooters. Likewise, I absolutely encourage them to take additional/advanced formal and more structured training to cover not just the mechanics of shooting, but situational awareness, avoidance and especially post traumatic event behaviors to convey critical information through 911 to clarify the scenario for any responding Emergency personnel.
I recommend they have the number of an attorney in their phone or wallet in advance.
In conclusion, I encourage you all to support your own choice of Gun Rights Support group(s), and VOTE.
GotRDid.

 

[ballistic64]

Constitutional carry also passed this year in South Dakota. As far as I was concerned, it was long overdue for the state to eliminate the requirement of a permission slip for a right we already have.

 

[69mach]

Here in Kansas we have constitutional carry. I disagree with the original poster in the fact that I don’t care how much training someone has. Every man woman and child has the right to defend themselves the best way they see fit. If they cause harm to a person or property they can suffer the the consequences but to refuse someone the right to defend themselves with a firearm bc of a lack of someone or a governments idea of certification is absurd.

 

[TIMO]

As a KY resident I agree with everyone in one way or another. All valid points, but the individual that decides to carry with or without a permit must decide as to how much and type of training they need and whether or not they decide to educate themselves pertaining to laws involved. Some will take the time and learn and some will not.

Not everyone grew up with firearms and we should be the ones taking the lead in providing guidance and advice, not opinions to everyone we know that wishes to carry. Even I learn things new all the time from fellow shooters and always open to a different way or technique.

I have lived in many places and shot at as many or more ranges. One of the things I do notice is that we are not sometimes the best promoters of our sport. Not slamming anyone here, but I have seen many new shooters shunned or treated as an outsider just because they are not using the same equipment that you or I may use.

Overall, I think the passing of Constitutional Carry is a good thing, since we are in the U.S.A. and at this time still have the choice afforded to each of us.

Tim

 

[69mach]

The right to carry has nothing to do with shooting sporting events or being a good Promoter of shooting sports. It has everything to do with protecting our inalienable rights granted to us by our creator. It’s worded that way for this very reason. Anything given by the government can be taken away by the same government with or without cause.

 

[GotRDid]

TIMO,
I very much agree in that many times I am a Teacher, but I am always a Student.
I have learned as much by interacting with fellow shooters as I have from formal education in Military, Departmental and Professional Trainers.
I was blessed with shooting shoulder to shoulder matches in HS in Small Bore/Precision Air Rifle/Pistol, as an MP in Combat Pistol shooting up to the FORSCOM level, Full Bore HP with KYSR&P Team, and with my Dept as well. I can’t say I shared the experience of any of those communities treating me other than an equal to perpetuate our sport. The Fern Creek Sportsman’s Club in Lou area is yet another place to share and shoot with some of the greatest proponents of firearms enthusiasm for all levels of interest.
Join us some time.
GotRDid.

 

[LarryDScott]

I am an FFL and do lots of transfers. Most are repeat buyers w/permits. When their CC expires, does this mean they will
have to submit to a BG ck unless they renew their card???
LDS

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I am an FFL and do lots of transfers. Most are repeat buyers w/permits. When their CC expires, does this mean they will
have to submit to a BG ck unless they renew their card???
LDS

Any id used on a 4473 must be current and the address be correct to be valid.
Additionally, I assume that the monthly(in Ky) background checks for all ccw holders cease when the license expires, which is the reason that Ky allowed the ccw permits to be used in lieu of the call in at point of purchase, anyway.

 

[TIMO]

Not trying to ruffle anyones feathers. Maybe my point did not come across as I intended.

Yes but, we as individual shooters/firearm owners are the ones that must promote this. It will not be the media or certain politicians that will. It starts at the lowest level when it comes to "individual" constitutional rights. We need everyone on board, even those that are not just like us. Each person that wishes to carry, (I hope has an underlying belief in self defense and the constitutionality of it and the 2nd Amendment). Whether a firearm is used in a sport or in self defense it is viewed by those who intend to eliminate your right all together, they do see it as one and the same because a firearm is used.

Tim

 

[TIMO]

TIMO,
I very much agree in that many times I am a Teacher, but I am always a Student.
I have learned as much by interacting with fellow shooters as I have from formal education in Military, Departmental and Professional Trainers.
I was blessed with shooting shoulder to shoulder matches in HS in Small Bore/Precision Air Rifle/Pistol, as an MP in Combat Pistol shooting up to the FORSCOM level, Full Bore HP with KYSR&P Team, and with my Dept as well. I can’t say I shared the experience of any of those communities treating me other than an equal to perpetuate our sport. The Fern Creek Sportsman’s Club in Lou area is yet another place to share and shoot with some of the greatest proponents of firearms enthusiasm for all levels of interest.
Join us some time.
GotRDid.

GotRDid,
I would like to come out and shoot with you all sometime. I would also like to extend a welcome to my club LRRC.

Tim

 

[338 Mollett]

My points are not directed at responsible and caring participants in shooting or the right to defend oneself.Our forum brothers are all correct in the points they have made.But we are preaching to each other.I just came home one hour ago from TGIF.And it was painfully obvious that people were not responsible with the drugs they were taking legal or not,and they DAMN sure were not responsible with a Trojan !let alone a pistol in their pocket.With everyones good perspectives about this issue,I think a good question has presented itself have we reached a tipping point as to the majority being responsible or not ?

 

[oldduc]

If they cause harm to a person or property they can suffer the the consequences but to refuse someone the right to defend themselves with a firearm bc of a lack of someone or a governments idea of certification is absurd.

I am not of the belief that every individual should be allowed to carry a firearm to "defend themselves". Apparently you haven't been to a public shooting range in a while. I'd just about rather be downrange when some folks cut loose with an AR they just took out of the box and took 15 minutes to figure out how to load. I believe that there are some people that shouldn't even be allowed to breathe much less carry a gun.

So if one of these morons "cause harm to a person....they can suffer the consequences". Sure, wait until that person is your wife or daughter or grandson. Training might seem like a good idea after that.

 

[69mach]

I am not of the belief that every individual should be allowed to carry a firearm to "defend themselves". Apparently you haven't been to a public shooting range in a while. I'd just about rather be downrange when some folks cut loose with an AR they just took out of the box and took 15 minutes to figure out how to load. I believe that there are some people that shouldn't even be allowed to breathe much less carry a gun.

So if one of these morons "cause harm to a person....they can suffer the consequences". Sure, wait until that person is your wife or daughter or grandson. Training might seem like a good idea after that.

I think your missing the point. Who is going to be in charge of saying this person is qualified and this person isn't. We all know some people that won't be qualified even after a hundred training sessions.
Who is to say someone shouldnt be able to say whether you have the right to free speech?? Being able to own and brandish a firearm is the same. Why does anyone have the right to take that away from you.

 

[oldduc]

I think your missing the point. Who is going to be in charge of saying this person is qualified and this person isn't. We all know some people that won't be qualified even after a hundred training sessions.
Who is to say someone shouldnt be able to say whether you have the right to free speech?? Being able to own and brandish a firearm is the same. Why does anyone have the right to take that away from you.

There's no point for me to miss. Just stick to your rights......no matter what. If that doesn't work out so well, then you can just put "Killed due to some idiot's 2nd Amendment Rights" on your loved ones tombstone.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

My points are not directed at responsible and caring participants in shooting or the right to defend oneself.Our forum brothers are all correct in the points they have made.But we are preaching to each other.I just came home one hour ago from TGIF.And it was painfully obvious that people were not responsible with the drugs they were taking legal or not,and they DAMN sure were not responsible with a Trojan !let alone a pistol in their pocket.With everyones good perspectives about this issue,I think a good question has presented itself have we reached a tipping point as to the majority being responsible or not ?

Constitutionally, it doesn't matter until 2/3s of the states ratify a change to the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Fortunate, or not.

I understand your logic but yes, there is a worthwhile price that has been and still must be paid for liberty. The 2nd is paramount to our liberty. It would be a much, much different country if we ever fail to be willing to pay that price. Unpopular...yes. Politically correct...no. True...ABSOLUTELY.

What else do we ban or restrict for a single accident or life, because someone is irresponsible? The list is enormous if we use that logic and none are protected rights except this one single thing. But many are involved in way more loss of life.

We have to teach responsibility to every gun owner and every child, be it about guns or simply paying our bills.

It's about personal responsibility! We are responsible for teaching the next gun owner as well as the next generation(OUR CHILDREN) about responsibilities.

Schools and day care centers don't do this. If anything, they are just the opposite. They teach parents to be irresponsible by raising our kids for us!! If ya can't bring a kid up RIGHT, don't have a kid.

This will piss some people off...
If you choose to let someone else raise your kids, you are responsible for the whole problem!
I get it...It takes two incomes to raise a family today. The American dream is a house and 2.5 kids. If someone else is raising them, or if someone is simply not a good parent...maybe that should be 1 car instead of 4, a smaller house, and 1 or even no kids.

Yes, it sucks! Lots of people won't ever like to hear the truth.

Again, it's about personal responsibility but it starts with us. Gov't certainly has played a big role in it being the way it is. We either adapt or we get what we have brought upon ourselves, though.

Mollett, I quoted you but I'm not talking about you. I have no idea, your personal situation. I just disagree that we should throw up our arms and say, well...no one is responsible enough to do this or that, so lets just limit everyone's right to defend themselves.

I'll let ya'll hash this out from here.

VOTE!!

 

[69mach]

There's no point for me to miss. Just stick to your rights......no matter what. If that doesn't work out so well, then you can just put "Killed due to some idiot's 2nd Amendment Rights" on your loved ones tombstone.

I can't babysit everybody out there that wants to carry a gun. I don't have the right nor do you. I can't control them in regards to a gun or a car. Look at vehicles. You have to be certified to drive a car. Does that stop accidents? No not to mention driving isn't a right like carrying a firearm is. I'm not about to live my life in constant fear on someone shooting my child by mistake while trying to defend themselves. My fear dosent give me the right to take away their right to defend themselves. If you feel that strongly by all means try to take away the guns of people you feel unfit to keep and bare arms. I doubt it goes well.